[House Hearing, 110 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
CENSUS DATA AND ITS USE IN THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON INFORMATION POLICY,
CENSUS, AND NATIONAL ARCHIVES
of the
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
OCTOBER 29, 2007
__________
Serial No. 110-196
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/
index.html
http://www.oversight.house.gov
----------
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COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
HENRY A. WAXMAN, California, Chairman
TOM LANTOS, California TOM DAVIS, Virginia
EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York DAN BURTON, Indiana
PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut
CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York JOHN M. McHUGH, New York
ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland JOHN L. MICA, Florida
DENNIS J. KUCINICH, Ohio MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana
DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania
JOHN F. TIERNEY, Massachusetts CHRIS CANNON, Utah
WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee
DIANE E. WATSON, California MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio
STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts DARRELL E. ISSA, California
BRIAN HIGGINS, New York KENNY MARCHANT, Texas
JOHN A. YARMUTH, Kentucky LYNN A. WESTMORELAND, Georgia
BRUCE L. BRALEY, Iowa PATRICK T. McHENRY, North Carolina
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina
Columbia BRIAN P. BILBRAY, California
BETTY McCOLLUM, Minnesota BILL SALI, Idaho
JIM COOPER, Tennessee JIM JORDAN, Ohio
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland
PAUL W. HODES, New Hampshire
CHRISTOPHER S. MURPHY, Connecticut
JOHN P. SARBANES, Maryland
PETER WELCH, Vermont
Phil Schiliro, Chief of Staff
Phil Barnett, Staff Director
Earley Green, Chief Clerk
David Marin, Minority Staff Director
Subcommittee on Information Policy, Census, and National Archives
WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri, Chairman
PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio
CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York CHRIS CANNON, Utah
JOHN A. YARMUTH, Kentucky BILL SALI, Idaho
PAUL W. HODES, New Hampshire
Tony Haywood, Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held on October 29, 2007................................. 1
Statement of:
Barton, Dan, president, Grafton Hill Neighborhood
Association; David Bohardt, vice president, St. Mary
Development Corp.; Teresa Brandt, president, Dayton View
Historic Neighborhood; Theresa Gasper, president, Full
Circle Development, LLC; Karin Manovich, Historic South
Park, Inc.; and Idotha Bootsie Neal, president, Wright
Dunbar, Inc................................................ 39
Barton, Dan.............................................. 39
Bohardt, David........................................... 44
Brandt, Teresa........................................... 51
Gasper, Theresa.......................................... 59
Manovich, Karin.......................................... 68
Neal, Idotha Bootsie..................................... 74
Kelley, Steve, Director, Office of Strategic Research, Ohio
Department of Development; and Matthew Scire, Director,
Strategic Issues, Government Accountability Office......... 7
Kelley, Steve............................................ 7
Scire, Matthew........................................... 18
Letters, statements, etc., submitted for the record by:
Barton, Dan, president, Grafton Hill Neighborhood
Association, prepared statement of......................... 41
Bohardt, David, vice president, St. Mary Development Corp.,
prepared statement of...................................... 46
Brandt, Teresa, president, Dayton View Historic Neighborhood,
prepared statement of...................................... 53
Clay, Hon. Wm. Lacy, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Missouri, prepared statement of................... 3
Gasper, Theresa, president, Full Circle Development, LLC,
prepared statement of...................................... 61
Kelley, Steve, Director, Office of Strategic Research, Ohio
Department of Development, prepared statement of........... 9
Manovich, Karin, Historic South Park, Inc., prepared
statement of............................................... 70
Neal, Idotha Bootsie, president, Wright Dunbar, Inc.,
prepared statement of...................................... 76
Scire, Matthew, Director, Strategic Issues, Government
Accountability Office, prepared statement of............... 20
CENSUS DATA AND ITS USE IN THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS
----------
MONDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2007
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Information Policy, Census, and
National Archives,
Committee on Oversight and Government Reform,
Dayton, OH.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:05 a.m., at
the John W. Beery, Sr. Wright Brothers Aviation Center, 1000
Carillon Boulevard, Dayton, OH, Hon. Wm. Lacy Clay (chairman of
the subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Clay and Turner.
Staff present: Darryl Piggee, staff director/counsel;
Alissa Bonner, professional staff member; Nidia Salazar, staff
assistant; Michael Wiehe, legislative director for
Representative Turner; and Chas Phillips, minority counsel.
Mr. Clay. The subcommittee will come to order. And let me
thank my ranking member, Congressman Mike Turner, for this
invitation to come to Dayton. We certainly appreciate the
opportunity to be here. We certainly appreciate the
hospitality, and the--the historic significance of this
community speaks volumes about this community, and how--and the
confidence that they put in my colleague, Mr. Turner, to
represent them in Washington. And I am so happy to have been
invited, and to be able to conduct this hearing here.
Welcome to the Information Policy, Census, and National
Archives Subcommittee hearing. And this hearing will come at
the topic of census data and issues in the development process.
Hearing no objection, the chair and ranking member will each
have 5 minutes to make opening statements. And all Members will
have 3 days to submit statements for the record.
And I'll begin with the opening statement, and welcome you
again to the day's hearing on census data and its use in the
development process. Because of Congressman Turner's work on
community development, as Mayor of Dayton, a Member of Congress
and chair of the subcommittee, Dayton is an ideal place to
discuss today's topic. And I commend him for his work in this
area.
Today we will discuss, one, the impact of the accuracy of
census data on community development; and, two, how census data
is used in community development programs; and, three, how
stakeholders in the community develop a process--processes to
use census data in their decisionmaking.
The Census Bureau conducts over 100 surveys every year, in
addition to the decennial census. Data from the decennial
census is used for the apportionment of congressional seats,
managing Federal agencies, and allocating Federal funds. Over
$300 billion is allocated based on data collected by the Census
Bureau. Estimates published under the Population Estimates
Program alone are used to distribute over $100 billion in
Federal funding, and to determine eligibility for social
programs that are based on population. Thus, undercounts can
significantly reduce funding for States and localities. One
study conducted for the U.S. Census Monitoring Board predicted
that the undercount for the 2000 census would cost States $4.1
billion in Federal funding. A GAO study conducted in 2003 found
that correcting population estimates for the 2000 census would
redistribute about $380 million in Federal funding for
Medicaid, Foster Care, Adoption Assistance, and the Social
Services Block Grant.
It is my hope, that the testimony received, and the
discussions that follows will yield constructive suggestions
for improving the accuracy of census data, to reduce funding
discrepancies, and the usefulness of census data to
stakeholders. We will hear from two expert panels here today,
who will share their thoughts on how this great task can be
accomplished in the most efficient and effective manner.
And now, I will recognize my friend and colleague, the
ranking member of the subcommittee, Mike Turner. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Hon. Wm. Lacy Clay follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Turner. Thank you, Chairman Clay. I want to thank you
for being here, and taking the time out of your busy schedule,
also away from your duties in Washington and your district, to
come to my district, to see what we've been doing here. We have
sort of a slogan in our office, which is, have you been to
Dayton yet? And we try to bring everybody from Washington, DC,
and I'm glad you have come. We've had the opportunity today, to
see Hawthorne Hill and Carillon Park facility that we're in.
And I appreciate your willingness to see these historic sights,
and also to hear the testimony today. We went to South Park
earlier, so we saw some of the homes that have been renovated,
and really the great potential in that neighborhood.
And for the people who are here, I want to tell you what a
leader our chairman is in Congress, in the issue of urban
areas, and issues. He also serves on the Financial Services
Committee, where the important issues of predatory lending, and
SSBG, and other Federal funding issues that assist in
redevelopment of communities occurs. And also was instrumental
in the efforts for Youthbuild, that translates right into
issues of how do you use construction skills to renovate
neighborhoods, and also provide opportunities for education and
employment opportunities.
And something I learned from you, about you today, that I
was unaware, your father was one of the original founders of
the Congressional Black Caucus. And the important significance
that has played in giving a voice to urban areas, and also
important issues from minority communities. We appreciate your
work on the census, because you have been an advocate for
making sure that minority populations are counted, but also
that city's accurately counted. Some of our most difficult
areas to count, in ensuring that they receive adequate
representation, as you pointed out in your comments, it doesn't
just go to voting representation, it also goes to their share
in Federal funds, that can address some of the issues for their
community.
When we toured South Park today, one of the things we
looked at was before and after pictures. And in one of the
homes, they gave us a description of the history of the house.
And I wanted to point out that when you read this history, and
we're standing there in the building, it starts with one item
at 1900. It says, the census lists the residence of 31 Bradford
as John Campbell and Kathryn, and tells their history, and goes
on to tell the census residence in 1910, 1920, and 1930. But
how it was used as a historic tool to tell the story of, what
are the histories of these properties, and how do they fit in
the overall fabric of our community?
I want to thank you so much for taking your time to be
here, and the importance of how this type of revitalization
project translates right to the issue of, how do we build our
urban populations to attract people back to our cities?
I also want to thank Brady Crest and Theresa Beachler, and
the rest of the staff here at Carillon Park, for their
hospitality and insistence on making this hearing successful.
Carillon Park is a wonderful facility in our community. I'm
glad the chairman was able to see Dayton's history through this
facility.
The hearing today will focus on population trends, and what
cities can do to reverse the population migration from urban
neighborhoods. Before I was mayor, I worked with several
neighborhood leaders to create the private partnership
Rehabarama with the Homebuilder's Association and Citywide
Development. This partnership targeted Dayton's historic
neighborhoods, and purchased the worst homes, renovated them,
then held a home show to showcase the homes and neighborhoods
to the region.
Each of Dayton's eight historic neighborhoods was a
recipient of the efforts of Rehabarama. Just last week was the
end of the second Rehabarama in the historic South Park
neighborhood. This show was unique, in that all of the
investment was done by private citizens, rather than public
subsidy. Mike DiFlora of the Home Group and Theresa Gasper of
the Full Circle Development are to be commended for their
vision and commitment to transforming the South Park
neighborhood.
The show is very successful, and the homes were carefully
restored. The chairman and I had the opportunity to see the
great work that was done earlier today. In each neighborhood,
Rehabarama had an impact both on the surrounding property
values, but also on the population trends in the area. The show
brought families back into abandoned homes, and increased the
desirability of living in Dayton's historic districts.
I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today. And I
again want to thank the chairman for his time and generosity in
coming to Dayton.
Mr. Clay. Thank you, Congressman Turner. The committee will
now hear testimony from the panel of folks. First witness
before us, we have two excellent panelists. One, Mr. Matthew
Scire, Director of Strategic Issues for the Government
Accountability Office and, two, and no stranger to this
committee, welcome Mr. Scire.
Mr. Scire. Thank you.
Mr. Clay. And we also have joining us Steven Kelley,
manager of the Office of Strategic Research for the Ohio
Department of Development, and the Ohio Data Center, the State
liaison to the U.S. Census Bureau. Thank you for coming today,
Mr. Kelley.
Mr. Kelley. My pleasure.
Mr. Clay. And it is the committee policy, that all
witnesses are sworn in. And please rise and raise your right
hands, please.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Clay. The record will show that each witness answered
in the affirmative. Your entire statement will be entered into
the record. And the--you have a light in front of you, that
indicates your time. But we won't be that strict about it,
please. And the yellow light means that you have--that your
time is running down, and you have 1 minute remaining. And then
the red light means your time has expired, so we'll get
started. And I guess we will begin with Mr. Kelly. It's your
show.
STATEMENTS OF STEVE KELLEY, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF STRATEGIC
RESEARCH, OHIO DEPARTMENT OF DEVELOPMENT; AND MATTHEW SCIRE,
DIRECTOR, STRATEGIC ISSUES, GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE
STATEMENT OF STEVE KELLEY
Mr. Kelley. Thank you, Chairman Clay, Ranking Member
Turner, and the Subcommittee on Information Policy, Census, and
National Archives. On behalf of Governor Ted Strickland and
Lieutenant Governor Lee Fischer, I am pleased to share with you
Ohio's State Data Center experience of working with the U.S.
Bureau of the Census and its many data products. The data
provided by the Bureau is a part of the warp and weave of
policy and development here in the State. Every day, the
numbers are referenced for a benchmark, or a trend line, and
are the starting points for future planning.
The first Joint Statistical Agreement between the Census
Bureau and the State of Ohio was signed in 1979, forming the
Census State Data Center network. This mutually supported
network is comprised of 47 government, planning, academic and
library agencies widely spread across the State.
The State Data Center lead agency is housed at the Ohio
Department of Development. The office is relatively unique, a
combination of multiple census sharing programs, the State data
center, population estimates, and population projection
projects programs are all within a single State governmental
agency. The Department has directly assisted the Bureau in
promoting three decennial censuses, 1980, 1990 and 2000.
The most obvious use of census data is the allocation of
Federal dollars. For Ohio, an annual average of $7.6 billion in
Federal funding is appropriated, based on census counts. This
figure was derived from a 10-year review of the Consolidated
Federal Funds Report.
Changing demographics of the population also has an
important impact on the cost and delivery of government
services. The chart on the Daily Net Growth of the 65 and over
population from 1995 to 2000 clearly demonstrated to the
General Assembly of Ohio as it deliberated on the State
Biennial Budget, the impact of an aging population. In 2007,
Ohio is experiencing a growth of 36 people a day in the age 65
and over cohort. In 2011, when the first baby boomers, those
born in 1946, reach 65, the daily growth jumps to 142 per day,
and stays over 100 a day for the next 15 years. Clearly,
population numbers have an impact.
Private development finds that tying census numbers to a
specific geography is the critical factor. The ability to cross
tabulate place, with population, with income or education
provides the decision criteria for many retailers and other
business services. For major employers, the community pattern
data helps determine the potential labor pool for a specific
location. The TIGER geography program allows business to map
the census data across a wide area without changing scale, or
paying for the creation of a base analysis map.
Moving ahead, looking at some of the population products
from the Census Bureau. The Current Population Survey, while
the least well known, is probably the most important tool for
State and local development, as it is the source for many of
our performance metrics. The unemployment rate and the size of
the civilian labor force at the State, county, and central
cities are the most basic of our metrics. Each month, these
numbers provide the only thermometer of local economic
conditions. And in addition, the annual release of educational
attainment, income distribution, and poverty rates are
carefully studied and compared for improvement from year to
year.
The newest and now most carefully watched information
source, is the American Community Survey. The large city
poverty statistics posted to over the last 3 years have drawn
attention, as Ohio cities have been ranked as having the
highest poverty rates in the country. The ranking process has
been problematic, as many local statisticians look at the size
of the sample, the margins of error, and the modified
definitions of the new survey, to recognize that a range,
rather than a rank would best represent the community. In
Cleveland, the rank of first should have been reported as a
first tier example.
For the rest of the State, our rural and suburban places
the limited sample size of the American Community Survey has
made updated numbers unavailable. As a survey grows in years
and size, we are hopeful that local communities and colleges
can collaborate with the Census Bureau to increase the
potential of the American Survey Community Survey. Together, in
partnership with the Census Bureau, we should be able to
deliver on its promise of more data in a timely fashion.
Thank you for the opportunity to share with the
subcommittee Ohio's experience with the census data. At this
time, I'll be glad to answer your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Kelley follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much, Mr. Kelley. And you--I can't
believe that he did it under the 5-minute requirement. Thank
you.
Mr. Scire, I wonder if you could top this.
Mr. Scire. I will try.
Mr. Clay. Proceed.
STATEMENT OF MATTHEW SCIRE
Mr. Scire. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Turner, thank you for the
opportunity to be here today, to discuss the important role
that the nation's population count plays in Federal grant
programs. As you know, the decennial census is a critical and
national effort mandated by the Constitution. Census data are
used to apportion seats in the congress, redraw congressional
districts, and for numerous other public and private sector
purposes. These data are also used directly or indirectly to
allocate billions of dollars in Federal assistance, to State
and local government. In fiscal year 2004, agencies obligated
over $460 billion in grant programs, the largest of these was
Medicaid, which accounted for nearly 40 percent of total grant
obligations. To understand the accuracy and completeness of the
census count, the Bureau estimates the population at the time
of the decennial count, using an independent statistical
survey. Because of the concern that inaccurate population
counts might affect the allocation of grant funds, we have
simulated the impact of substituting the post-censal population
estimate for the census count. To illustrate the potential
impact, we selected one grant program, the Social Services
Block Grants program, because its formula relies exclusively on
annual population estimates, to allocate funds among the
States. We found that using the independent population
estimate, rather than the census count, could shift funding
among the States in the District of Columbia, principally
because of variation among the States, in the extent to which
the independent estimate for the State differed from its census
count.
To illustrate, looking at fiscal year 2004 for allocations
for the Social Services Block Grant program alone, 27 States
and the district of Columbia would have gained funding, and 22
States would have lost funding, using estimates based on this
independent survey. The greatest difference occurred for
Washington, DC, which would have received an additional 2.05
percent in funding. And Minnesota, which would have received
1.17 percent less.
Grant programs generally rely on annual estimates of the
State's population developed by the Census Bureau. To prepare
these annual estimates, the Bureau begins with a prior
decennial count, and then updates these using data on births,
deaths, and other information. By the time the next decennial
count is completed, there can be substantial differences
between it, and an annual estimate built on the prior decennial
census.
In 2000, these differences called errors of closure, range
from a low of 0.27 percent for West Virginia, to a high of over
10 percent for the District of Columbia. For every State, the
population count was higher than the estimate that was based on
a prior decennial, but the extent varied. The differences in
error of closure among the States, result from shifts in State
allocation of grant funds for the Social Services Block Grant
Program, an estimated 8.6 million shifted from the 28 States
that had below average percentage corrections, to the 22 States
and the District of Columbia that had above average percentage
corrections--I'm sorry, from below to above.
One challenge that some grant programs may face, is the
replacement of the decennial long form data, with the ongoing
American Community Survey. Today, this survey provides annual
information on communities with populations over 65,000. By
2010, the survey will provide 5 year average estimates for
areas to the areas smallest block groups, census tracks, small
towns, and rural areas. The survey also provides information on
immigration that will be used for annual, State, and county
estimates of population.
In summary, Mr. Chairman, the decennial census is an
important factor of the allocation of grant funds. Either
directly or indirectly, it is a component of many grant
formulas. Should the count be inaccurate, it could affect the
allocation of grant funds. Likewise, differences between annual
estimates of population and the decennial count can build over
the decade and cause a once-a-decade corrections to population
estimates, and consequently, the allocations among the States.
Because it is essential that the decennial count be
accurate for 2010, the Bureau, once again, plans to conduct an
independent statistical estimate of the population. Plans to
focus on the components of any net, or over or under count, and
how these may vary across population groups and locations.
We're currently reviewing as plans--as in the past, we look
forward to supporting the subcommittees over site efforts, to a
timely and complete, and accurate cost affective census.
This concludes my opening remarks. Thank you again for the
opportunity to speak today. I'd be glad to take any questions
you may have.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Scire follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much, Mr. Scire. And thank you both
for your testimony, in being here today. I will recognize the
ranking member, Mr. Turner, for questions.
Mr. Turner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, thank you both
for being here, and for your testimony, and for highlighting
the important issues of what the census data, demographics,
what the information that we can glean from it, what things we
need to do to improve our processes.
Mr. Kelley, my first question goes to you, in that you have
highlighted in your presentation, the differences in Ohio
counties, of some being population losers, some being
population gainers. In my district, looking on your map, you
can see that for urban areas, the Dayton area appears to be
about third in population loss, with Cleveland and perhaps
Youngstown being higher. Toledo, Columbus, and Cincinnati
having lost less population. So Ohio's--Dayton's losing more
population than the others.
In Warren County, which is in my district, being No. 2 for
population gain. So you have this contrast of an urban core
anchored county, and a county that is growing faster than
actually--you have identified as not only greater than Ohio,
but also greater than the national average--is its growth rate.
In looking at the demographics from the census, beyond just
population rises and increase, what are some of the things that
we should look to in the demographic data, that would tell us
what we should focus on, looking perhaps to policy of the
development of the two different counties.
Mr. Kelley. Congressman Clay, Ranking Member Turner, it's a
big question. What the census is actually, a kind of a lagging
indicator, in that it's reporting on the movement of people.
And so we have to figure out what's going on with the
population, and what are the trends. Over the last 20 years,
we've seen a dramatic drop in interest rates. We've seen a
housing boom that has been unrivaled in our history, except for
the--probably the first baby boom. And so we've had low income,
where we've had new household formation. We've had low interest
rates, so that the movement of households to the American dream
of owning your own home, and your own piece of property have
been reinforced in a positive sort of way. And I think we'll
see some trends change as the economics of the national
economy, and then the local economy changes as well.
So again, it's reflecting the market conditions out there.
And we'll see some changes in the market conditions. And I
think we'll see some changes between the two.
Mr. Turner. In looking at demographics, one of the things
that you highlighted in your testimony relates to the poverty
statistics. You questioned whether or not the poverty
information accurately reflected the circumstances of
communities, and how it is reported. Could you speak a little
more about that? And Mr. Scire, if you could respond to that.
Mr. Kelley. First--Chairman Clay, Ranking Member Turner,
first off was the sample size. What the statistics were
revealing were a single year of statistics. And oftentimes, we
were out in the field, we're looking at the numbers and
wondering if it was a large enough sample.
Second off, we saw the variation in the poverty rate. It
was very volatile. And so that suggested that maybe 1 year, the
sampling had leaned to the high end. And maybe the next year,
that survey had leaned--so as more and more years become
available, and they start mixing, I think we should see some
stability on that, and that should help improve. We saw the
definition of poverty change from the 2000 census, because of
this change. And one of them is the issue of timing. The
question is, in the last 12 months versus the last year. And so
we see a constant change of that timing, and we're not quite
sure exactly what that means, and what people are including. So
we're finding it difficult to get a stable definition that can
be checked over time. Those are some of the things that we're
seeing with the national census, and so with the American
Community Survey. And we hope that again, over time, some of
that variability gets leveled out, and we can see maybe what
those trends are doing.
Mr. Turner. Mr. Scire, could you comment on that?
Mr. Scire. We haven't looked at the American Community
Survey, and how it's being implemented since it was originally
put out there. But on the poverty statistic alone, one thing I
would point out, that it's important, in terms of formulas and
so forth, that it not--that it be--that it recognize the
differences that there are in cost of living across--from one
community to the next. That a flat rate for poverty, or flat
number for poverty doesn't necessarily indicate what the need
really is in a particular community.
Mr. Turner. Excellent point.
Mr. Kelley. Building on that, I guess I'll reinforce that
on housing. If you take a look at the average price of housing
in a Cleveland, or Cincinnati, or a Dayton versus a New York,
or a Boston, or San Francisco, it becomes very obvious that
there's a major difference in that definition.
Mr. Turner. Excellent. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Clay. Thank you, Mr. Turner. In your testimony, Mr.
Kelley, you state that the ranking process of the American
Community Survey became problematic, as many local
statisticians began looking at the sample size margin of error,
and the modified definition of survey, to recognize that a
range rather than a rank would be best representing the
community. Can you tell us a little more about the affective
problems might have, on the quality of the data collected?
Mr. Kelley. Chairman Clay, Representative Turner, the issue
gets to be, when you take a look at the margin of error, that
we found that a 24 percent rate of poverty, or a 30 percent
rate of poverty, when we added in the margins of error, plus or
minus 2 percent, or again, depending on the sample size, we
found that the city ranked first and the city that ranked 20th,
were actually statistically within range of each other. So we
really couldn't say definitively, that Cleveland was a higher
poverty rate than say Antonio. And so the issue of a rank gives
a sense of exactness, that the margins of error, when you look
at them say, that's not really the case. They all may be
actually the same. And so it gets to be a little bit difficult.
Being 1st or 20th is a big difference in the mind of a mayor of
a community leader, and is--particularly in the media.
Mr. Clay. No. It certainly is, because it would attach a
stigma----
Mr. Kelley. Yes.
Mr. Clay [continuing]. Or a label on a certain community.
The Non-employers Statistics Program provides information on
businesses without paid employees at a subject of Federal
income tax. According to the Census Bureau, most non-employers
are self-employed individuals, operating small unincorporated
businesses. In your work, have you found this information to be
helpful to policymakers, in setting policy that affects small
business?
Mr. Kelley. Chairman Clay, Representative Turner, the--what
we find, is that this is a new data set that we are just
starting to examine and see the strength and limitations of it.
We actually published a first--our first report on that data
set this year. And we're still waiting to hear from the field,
from businesses and from government leaders, how that impacts
their understanding. We are amazed at the size and breath of
the information that's there. And as far as the definition of
small business, we're trying to incorporate that into our
understanding. So it's still kind of new for us, to see what's
happening.
Mr. Clay. Should different--should additional categories of
businesses be added to the survey, or would that help?
Mr. Kelley. The jury's still out on that. Again, we're just
trying to get people interested and aware of its existence. And
we have not gotten a lot of feedback yet.
Mr. Clay. Thank you. Thank you for that response. Mr.
Scire, one of the purposes of this hearing is to find out how
census data is used in Federal funding formulas. We know that
they are used in the CDBG, Community Development Block Grant
program, and Social Service Block Grant program, as you have
discussed. Can you tell us how extensive, is the use of census
data, in formulating for Federal programs?
Mr. Scire. I think the way I would put it is, that the
population counts ripple throughout the entire statistical
system. The counts that are done every 10 years, are used as a
basis for developing annual estimates of population. Many of
these grant programs are using those measures directly. And
then also the population count and the housing count are used
to establish sampling frames, for example, for other surveys.
So it's a foundation for the statistical system. And so there
are many, many grant programs that rely on data, that may not
directly use that population count, but for it the surveys,
that they do rely on would be--would be done completely
differently. So I think I would put it that way, that it really
runs throughout these programs.
Mr. Clay. In the GAO study, population estimates were
submitted for census counts. And it was found that
recalculating allocation from Social Services Program Block
Grant funds would shift $4.2 million. Now, 27 States and the
District of Columbia gained funding, and 23 States lost
funding. What were the results of some of the other areas GAO
examined in the study, and did the Census Bureau or the
department comment on the study?
Mr. Scire. We looked at two programs in that analysis. One
was the Social Services Block Grant program, which you
mentioned. The other was Medicaid. Of course Medicaid is huge,
compared with the Social Services Block Grant Program. And so
as you mentioned, there was $4.2 million, and those Social
Services Block Grant funds would have shifted, if you
substituted the estimates for the population count. For
Medicaid, the number was more--was over $300 million. So just
because of the sheer size of that program, there was much more
of an impact, in terms of dollars. In terms of a percentage
impact, it was more or less the same, that it was about a
quarter of a percent of funding shifted among the States for
both, the SSBG and the Medicaid program. Actually, Medicaid was
a little bit less on the percentage basis. And there was an
equivalent number of winners and losers, in terms of numbers of
States. Let's see, I forgot the second part of your question.
Mr. Clay. What is the effect of these adjustments, and how
do the adjustments compare to the actual census?
Mr. Scire. Well, again, this was--I would say that a
quarter of a percent is the easiest way to look at it.
Mr. Clay. OK. What agencies used the data the most? What
Federal agencies rely on census data?
Mr. Scire. I would not be surprised to learn that every
Federal agency relies on census data in some way or another. If
it's not for allocation of funds, then it's for understanding
performance of programs, for example. But some of the bigger
users, in terms of grant formulas would be HHS, the HUD,
Department of Labor. But again, I think that the data are used
in a lot of different ways.
Mr. Clay. Thank you. Thank you for that response. Mr.
Turner.
Mr. Turner. Mr. Scire, I want to followup on the chairman's
questions concerning the estimates. In your written testimony,
page 7 has a chart that is--has the heading of ``Estimated
Social Services Block Grant Percentage Change In Grant Funding
Using Statistical Population Estimates for States.'' The
chairman was asking you questions about that. In looking at the
winners and losers, I note that not only is Ohio a loser in
that, but that pretty much all of our neighbors, Indiana,
Illinois, Michigan, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kentucky are
all down in the bottom category. Could you just tell us a
little bit more about this chart and that application?
Mr. Scire. Certainly. I think that what you might be
observing here, is that in these States--in the bottom of the
chart, are ones that generally were considered to have had an
over count. I also--before I even go any further, I want to
emphasize that these are based on estimates coming out of this
independent statistical survey called ACE. And I'm not sure
that the Bureau even considers those estimates reliable. But
having said that, if you were to substitute an estimate for the
count, you would say that the estimate was lower for a lot of
these States near the bottom. And so that basically, the
population count was greater than, yes, but that's called an
over count. It could be that these are States that throughout
the decade, have had a loss of--did not have as much
immigration population, perhaps, which might explain
differentials that you see, between the under count and over
count. So--and for--for the State of Ohio, this had no--0.79
percent differential represented a $528,000, for example. In
Minnesota, it was $344,000. For the District of Columbia, which
had--which was considered to have had an under count, if you
applied that estimate rather than the count, it would have made
a difference of $67,000 in the SSBG program. There could be
differences--when you look at Medicaid, the graphic might be a
little bit different, inasmuch as States with higher incomes
would be--have less of an effect, in a way, meaning the change.
You're still going to get the--they would get the same
repayment. The percentages it's based on, there's a floor. And
it's 50 percent, basically, for the matching rate under
Medicaid. And so you might see less of an impact in some
States, than you do here, because Social Services Block Grant
relies solely on population.
Mr. Turner. One of the limitations I think we have in the
census, is that we're counting people. And they're--of course
that's a constitutional mandate, that we count people. But we
layer on top of it, beyond the constitutional mandate, issues
of demographics, which tend to be the conditions of people,
their education level, their employment level. But it doesn't
give us that much of a picture of communities. We can sort of
extrapolate, and try to do comparison between communities, and
communities based on similar demographic data. But I'm going to
ask you to respond for just a moment, on limitations of the
census, in that respect. And I'm going to do it in light of,
Mr. Kelley, as you were saying, if you look at Montgomery
County, we're a number of three of urban cores in the State
losing population. Warren County, is still in my district, No.
2, gaining population. You don't look at--through the census
data information, what's left behind or what a community
struggles with, as populations decline with the abandoned
houses, blighting influences that result from that. So if you
could just speak--I'm going to ask you for just a moment, to
speak about the limitations that you see in census demographic
data, in really telling us the true demographics of the
community.
Mr. Kelley. Chairman Clay, Congressman Turner, the issue is
actually one of timing. The decennial census is every 10 years.
And a part of that long form, as a component of the housing
stock, and the household. And we get a wealth of information
from that information. With the adding on the American
Community Survey, and replacing the long form with this annual
update, particularly in our urban areas, there is a potential
of getting a more timely update, particularly when we're
talking about vacancy rate of buildings, age of the buildings,
condition of the buildings. So that may get to some of that
question, of what is the current condition of our urban core.
So the American Community Survey has some potential, to give us
a timely update. Rather than once every 10 years, we might be
able to see how things are moving in an every two to 3-year
pattern, on what's happening.
Mr. Turner. Excellent point. Mr. Scire.
Mr. Scire. Well, I think we've reported in the past, the
limitations of certain data. I would look at the--in terms of
housing quality, for example, there are measures of, you know,
whether or not there's complete plumbing, whether there's
complete electric, and so forth. That would be over the years,
those kind of metrics are less meaningful, because generally
there's--there isn't the same issue, in terms of lack of those
features. So the measures of housing quality may not really get
at what you're trying to measure. In terms of poverty, I was
talking before about the importance of adjusting that to
recognize the various costs of living, from one locality to
another. So a flat dollar amount threshold for poverty,
wouldn't get that. And so there could be a better measurement,
for example, of what metric for the cost of living, in a way.
We're doing some analysis right now. We're looking at fair
market rents, as one possibility of recognizing in a way, and
adjusting poverty for the cost of living and locality.
Mr. Turner. Thank you. Mr. Clay.
Mr. Clay. Thank you. Mr. Kelley, for many large cities,
there is a concern that the estimate methodology is biased to
areas of rapid building, in other words, new construction,
rather than to areas where there is rehab. What alternative
procedures could you recommend to--for the Bureau to explore,
as far as being able to, I guess, give equal attention to both
areas?
Mr. Kelley. Chairman Clay, Congressman Turner, the most--
probably the best example of that right now here in Ohio is
that the city of Cincinnati has contracted the social contract
of Washington, DC, to do an alternative population estimate
process. And they included a large number of activities, but
I'll focus in on what we've worked with, with the estimates
division, again, building permits. We know that is the basic
block that they use to manipulate the numbers. I would say that
we'll need to ask them to reconsider or add additions for
established communities for remodeling. At this point, all
they're asking for is new builds. Remodeling has been
eliminated. The second part of it is that the most--probably
need to take a look at the IRS migration files, that they use
to identify movement. Here in Ohio, we have a situation where
there's a marriage penalty, often times for households. And
it's beneficial to file separately, and that means filing
separately at the Federal level. So we have a large number of
possible--an over statement of households that are leaving or
moving because of Ohio taxes. So we have an administrative
issue, rather than an actual household activity, and that may
be something that we need to go back and take a look at, as
well.
Mr. Clay. I see. And do you think if--if they would
approach, I guess, the building permit issue, and I guess you
also need a building permit to do rehab, is that in most
cities?
Mr. Kelley. My understanding, is that would be a
requirement for most cities. Our township says that's not
necessarily the case. In our cities, I would say that would be
an absolute requirement, in most cases.
Mr. Clay. Or work permits, or whatever?
Mr. Kelley. Right.
Mr. Clay. That's a great point. I thank you for that, Mr.
Turner. Any more questions?
Mr. Turner. No. No more questions.
Mr. Clay. I have no more questions. This panel is excused,
and thank you very much for your testimony today. You will
also, without objection, submit the Census Bureau's testimony
for today's hearing. And we'll take a brief break to set up for
the second panel. Thank you both, gentlemen.
Mr. Scire. Thank you.
[Recess.]
Mr. Clay. The committee will come to order.
And it is the policy of the subcommittee, to swear in all
witnesses. Would you please rise, and raise your right hands.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Clay. Thank you very much. You may be seated. The
record will show that each witness answered in the affirmative.
The entire statement will be entered into the record. At this
point, I will differ to my ranking member, Mr. Turner, for
introductions.
Mr. Turner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's my honor, to
introduce to you, which is a diverse panel of grassroots
community leaders, institutional partners, and community
leadership. We're going to start with Dan Barton to our left,
who is the president of the Grafton Hill Neighborhood
Association. Grafton Hill is a neighborhood--all of these
neighborhoods are right outside of downtown, but has many
institutional partners including the home of our Art Institute.
David Bohardt is currently the vice president with Saint
Mary's Neighborhood Development Corp., which is a faith based
CDC. He was, prior to that, the head of our local Homeowner's
Association, and was a partner in our Rehabaramas, and the most
important aspect for many of our neighborhoods, adding
Citirama, which was a new construction component, convincing
new home builders to come into the city of Dayton.
Next, we have Theresa Brandt, who is the president of the
Dayton View historic neighborhood. Dayton View is a very large
neighborhood, that was a site of a very successful Rehabarama.
And she has been very helpful in working with other
neighborhoods, in addition to our own.
We have Theresa Gasper, president of the Full Circle
Development, who's the private equity partner for the South
Park Rehabarama, which you visited today. In taking a lead in
seeing how the private sector can come in, and play a role that
government has previously played.
Karin Manovich, the president of historic South Park, who
is--has an incredible team that she leads in advancing South
Park, which I believe has the largest number of structures, in
all of our historic districts. So she has the largest area that
she is coordinating.
And then we have Idotha Bootsie Neal, who is the president
of Wright Dunbar, Inc., which is a private partnership that is
focused on the redevelopment of the Wright Dunbar neighborhood
in the commercial sector. In addition to partnering on the
residential side, Bootsie Neal served with me in the city
council, and was a leader in both neighborhood development, but
also in Rehabarama, and Citirama, and in really turning the
Wright Dunbar area around, both with the rehab and new
construction. The Wright Dunbar neighborhood today is one of
the highest priced neighborhoods for a new housing
construction. When Commissioner Neal was active, they had at
first, had been a proposal to demolish the housing that was in
the Wright Dunbar area and construct apartments. She fought to
ensure that area be rehabilitated, and have an historic flavor,
which it does today.
Mr. Clay. Thank you. And welcome to all of you. I
appreciate you being here today. And we will now--we will try
to observe the 5-minute rule for presentation. And we'll start
on this end and move on down. Mr. Barton, you may begin.
STATEMENTS OF DAN BARTON, PRESIDENT, GRAFTON HILL NEIGHBORHOOD
ASSOCIATION; DAVID BOHARDT, VICE PRESIDENT, ST. MARY
DEVELOPMENT CORP.; TERESA BRANDT, PRESIDENT, DAYTON VIEW
HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD; THERESA GASPER, PRESIDENT, FULL CIRCLE
DEVELOPMENT, LLC; KARIN MANOVICH, HISTORIC SOUTH PARK, INC.;
AND IDOTHA BOOTSIE NEAL, PRESIDENT, WRIGHT DUNBAR, INC.
STATEMENT OF DAN BARTON
Mr. Barton. Thank you very much, Chairman Clay and
Representative Turner, to come before this subcommittee today,
to discuss the importance of a census information in
neighborhood revitalization. And I'll speak to our--my
particular perspective, which is a project called the
Renaissance Alliance, incorporating institutions within our
area. Our project was conceived based on the information that
we were receiving from the census data base on total numbers
and demographic information. What we were able to establish, as
an ongoing trend, was the aging and the churn that was
occurring within our neighborhoods.
Our neighborhood was built between the 1870's and 1920's,
with occasional high density construction occurring at the time
of the peak of Dayton's population in the late 1960's and early
1970's. The neighborhoods originally represented a cross-
section of the typical populations that were present throughout
the county at that time. From looking at census data from the
1950's on, we could track ongoing changes that eventually
became an exodus of certain segments of the population. And
this exodus continued for many reasons that were national, as
well as local. But this population shifted away from the
established urban core that we observed within the statistics,
have a very significant and negative impact within our
neighborhoods. The population shift left buildings within our
neighborhoods without a viable market. Lacking competitive
amenities with new suburban construction, the buildings fell
into lower and lower occupancy, which consequently made it more
and more difficult for the owners to maintain those structures,
and to maintain a high enough level of occupancy, that they
would remain profitable--profitable enough to maintain the
buildings, etc. And update the buildings with the amenities
that would attract the same kind of populations that they were
originally built to hold, and give a residence to. This basic
problem of the infrastructure aging and not being maintained,
began to spread throughout the five area neighborhoods,
impacting first the larger apartments, but then also impacting
the single-family homes, which were at the core of the five
neighborhoods. And census data throughout the 1970's and 1980's
indicated that this trend was continuing and accelerating. And
we could see from our own subjective evaluations, that this was
occurring. We're not only losing people, but there was within
the neighborhoods a lot of churn. Because it's individual
buildings were falling into disrepair, that population might
move to another building. But within any 10-year span, there
would be a substantial shifting within the neighborhood of
populations. And some of the instability that comes from the
reporting certainly impacted our neighborhoods very heavily.
In terms of what it meant for the overall values of the
houses, between 1955 and 1980, there was almost a 75 percent
collapse in real value, adjusted for inflation, of the values
of the properties. This impacted not only the apartments and
the homes where, you know, for a single occupied family, a real
loss of dollars is a very negative impact on your net worth. So
that this collapsing value was actually discouraging people
from moving into the neighborhoods, encouraging--discouraging
apartment owners from making the reinvestments, and certainly
driving away the other development that would occur within a
retail and residential neighborhood context, that makes a
neighborhood viable and strong.
As these neighborhoods have declined, our institutions have
assisted us and stepped in to a void Grandview Hospital, the
Dayton Art Institute, and the Saint Mary's Development Corp.
have stepped in to try to address this. From the standpoint of
Grandview Hospital, which was an institution landlocked as it
grew, it was facing some substantial obstacles for growth and
continuation. And of course, the neighborhoods themselves
realized that the upkeep of 100-year-old historic houses is a
challenge, and a challenge that is more and more difficult for
an aging population that has less economic resources. What we
determined to do in the face of that, and at the time when
Representative Turner was mayor, we decided to take all of the
institutions and the stakeholders, and form a strategic plan
around that, which is now what we call the Renaissance
Alliance. And we have been working toward harmonizing our goals
and our actions, so that each of them--of our respective
resources, and our resources are very varied, can work toward a
common goal.
The goals that we have identified and are working toward,
as to make significant street scape changes to permit expansion
of the hospital campus, improve the removal of blight, and
facilitate the strengthening of new populations moving back
within our neighborhoods. We've had a lot of improvements in
place, and those are reported in my notes to the subcommittee.
And I did want to basically identify that, at this point, with
all of the things that are underway and improvements, that we
have made a $108 million and $466,000 of improvements, either
planned or committed with funding in place for must of those.
And the city has, in parallel, worked $47 million improvement
into this. And we hope that the census data coming forward from
this point, will reinforce quantitative and qualitative data
that will allow us to improve the retail component of large
businesses looking at our neighborhoods, and our populations
within the neighborhoods, in a favorable light, in making any
decisions to invest in that.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Barton follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Clay. Thank you.
Mr. Barton. Thank you very much.
Mr. Clay. Thank you very much for that testimony.
Mr. Bohardt.
STATEMENT OF DAVID BOHARDT
Mr. Bohardt. Mr. Chairman, Congressman Turner, thank you
for this opportunity to be here. My colleague, Dan, ran over a
little bit, but I in advance agreed to yield to him some of my
time.
Mr. Clay. Great.
Mr. Bohardt. So I'm hoping to take 3 or 4 minutes here.
Mr. Clay. You will be fine.
Mr. Bohardt. During the years 1993 to 2006, I had the
privilege of serving as executive director of the Homebuilder's
Association of Dayton. During that time, thanks primarily to
the leadership of then mayor, now Congressman Mike Turner, the
association partnered with the city of Dayton to sponsor 10
Rehabarama and Citirama events. These events directly and
indirectly have generated more than $50 million in private
sector investment. And through stabilization of the city's
close-in historic districts, permitted the 100 million plus
economic resurgence of the city's downtown in the late 1990's
to the current day.
In every instance, the availability, reliability, use, and
analysis of U.S. census data was incredibly important. In the
case of Rehabarama and Citirama events, these data allowed us
to understand the current social, economic, cultural and other
demographic characters of neighborhoods targeted for
reinvestment, permitting us further to understand how much
investment was required by the public sector, before the
private sector could be expected to do most of the heavy
lifting, with respect to project development and finance. And
the data also enabled us to project long-term impacts on local
governments' tax revenue streams. I know you had the
opportunity this morning to visit the homes of Rehabarama in
South Park, and they're a very good case in point. As
Congressman Turner mentioned, when the first Rehabarama was
conducted in South Park in 2001, approximately $2 million of
city subsidy was provided. In the homes you toured, and in 30
others completely rehabilitated or underway, 100 percent of the
costs, and probably close to $3 million will be shouldered
entirely by the private sector.
Taken together, the two Rehabarama events in South Park,
and the additional investments they have encouraged, have added
more than $5 million of appraised values to Montgomery County's
property tax rolls, and approximately $3 million of additional
annual household revenue, to the city's income tax rolls.
In South Park and other neighborhoods served by Rehabarama
and Citirama, the availability and accuracy of census data is
the very first, an absolutely essential tool of community
redevelopment.
At St. Mary's Development, I'm executive vice president
since 1989, we've brought forward approximately 30 projects,
serving low income seniors and working families, total economic
impact of plus or minus $200 million. For each of our projects,
our financing is primarily low-income housing tax credits under
Section 42 of the Internal Revenue Service Code. Again, the
availability and accuracy of census data are critically
important to these projects and literally drive the feasibility
and location of low income tax credit projects.
They enable us to identify, census tract by census tract,
those low-income communities with the highest level of need for
the housing for low-income seniors and working families. The
designation of qualified census tracts under Section 42d of the
IRS Code brings into a sharper relief those communities with
the highest needs.
Since proposed low-income housing tax credit projects
seldom go forward unless they are located within the boundaries
of qualified census tracts, the accuracy and reliability of the
data that underlie them is absolutely essential.
Mr. Chairman, Congressman Turner, I thank you for this
opportunity to provide this testimony.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Bohardt follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much. Ms. Brandt, you may proceed.
STATEMENT OF TERESA BRANDT
Ms. Brandt. Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Congressman Turner.
I'm honored to be here today, and represent Dayton View
Historic District. It was one of the neighborhoods that was
lucky enough to have two Rehabarama's over the period of 1999
and 2001. I've also brought in some pictures here this morning,
so that you can have a visual. I know you got to actually
experience South Park this morning. And I thought to have a
little bit of equal time, I brought in some pictures of the
various houses that are in my neighborhood.
In an effort to paint you a picture of my neighborhood, and
the redevelopment effort, I believe it's prudent to give a
short background in the historical perspective of the area.
Dayton Historic first established its historic district in 1977
by the city commissioner here in Dayton, and then subsequently
put on the historic register in 1984. In 1832, our first house
was built, and it was an old farmhouse. And at the time, this
area was located northwest of downtown, across the river to the
city. And Dayton--and it is, as a matter of fact, but it was
difficult to get to Dayton View from downtown, until the bridge
came into play, and until ferries actually were transporting
people back and forth across. So in many ways, my neighborhood
was one of the first, ``what you would see as a suburb today,''
in the Dayton area. And as such, kind of like a suburb, the
character of the homes were very, very different from the
character of the homes in some of the other areas. Very
frequently, we had very large homes. And today, we still have
three of our mansions that are still in existence, although
they have fallen to a bit of disarray.
During the 1930's and the rising popularity of the area
with its closeness to the city of Dayton, the homes began to be
dissected and subdivided. And they fell into disrepair even
more and more, as time went by, and as the populations shifted
for the industrial revolution. And through the war efforts,
people were trying to go downtown to work in the factories, and
various other places in the area. The homes became more and
more dissected. Sometimes houses that were--for example, one of
my mansions is 8,000 square feet, it had 32 apartments in it
once upon a time. Those are teeny tiny--I mean, basically one
bedroom apartments. And it wasn't until the district became
historic, that it actually started to turn backward. And more
and more, people are moving back into the area. With the
Rehabaramas, and the first Rehabarama, they did 10 houses in
the neighborhood. And the city takes the most blighted
properties, the biggest eyesores, and starts renovation. And in
a couple of the cases, they had to demo a house that was
sitting on a lot, because it was just economically unfeasible
to redevelop it.
And so you see, several of the houses that were rebuilt not
quite exactly the same as they were originally, but they are
much, much nicer. And the single-family homes that have been
built in place, have stayed pretty stable. People that have
moved into them, haven't really moved back out of the area. In
2001, they took an experiment, and decided to do some
condominiums in one of our old apartment buildings. Hopefully,
taking something that Mr. Barton was talking about, and reusing
it in a better way. That has been marginally successful, from
the perspective that it took much longer in my neighborhood for
the condos to take root. Some of those, for example, didn't
sell for the first time. They were redone in 2001, and it was
up to 2005 before the first--before the final one actually
sold. In my neighborhood, a part of it is because of the
demographics of Dayton View. We are in a bigger planning area
in the city of Dayton, which is 15 percent white, 85 percent
minority. In Dayton View Historic itself, we don't really keep
track of the exact demographics for it. But we kind of did a
quick eyeball discussion, and we figured out that there were
probably 30 percent white, 70 percent minority in the district.
That has some impact, too, because it also impacts the economic
viability of some of this area. And I put in my written
testimony, all of the docs and all of the data regarding sales
and redevelopment efforts. But one of the things I did want to
say in final, is that it's very important, as the census data
changes and new demographics develop, that more concentration
be put on the urban areas, because they are the most depressed.
And they're sometimes the hardest ones to bring back. It's very
easy to build a house out in the middle of the cornfield, but
it's very, very difficult to redevelop and make an area
reemerge, once it's gone so far downhill.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Brandt follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much for that observation. Ms.
Gasper, please proceed.
STATEMENT OF THERESA GASPER
Ms. Gasper. Thank you for the opportunity to present today.
I hope you enjoyed the tour. As you can see, we're a little
proud of our heritage of the Wright Brothers.
Mr. Clay. Yes, I do.
Ms. Gasper. As mentioned I am one of the two investors
behind this year's Rehabarama in South Park, which just
finished up last Sunday, a week ago yesterday. The other
investor is Michael DiFlora from the Home Group. I didn't
realize, until after I submitted my written testimony, that he
wasn't going to be here today. Being the engineer, he would
have provided a lot more statistical data. In his absence, I'll
try and focus more on the numbers, and less on the stories of
our experience, also known as our adventure.
I confess, we did not rely heavily on census data, and that
is primarily because the reason we chose South Park, in
addition to Karin getting a hold of me and not letting go, is
that's the neighborhood I grew up, and I'm the fourth
generation, on my father's side, to live there. We moved out in
1972. And since I've left, I always wanted to come back and
revitalize it.
This is the first time Rehabarama has been done with the
private investment. The city did provide $100,000 to the
Homebuilders Association of Dayton, who market managed the
show. To date, Full Circle Development and the Home Group has
invested between $2 and $3 million of private capital into
South Park. We made a deliberate decision to not use public
funding, because of the shrinking pool of resources.
Michael and I selected South Park, primarily due to the
neighborhood's leadership, passion, tenacity and proactive
problem solving. We decided our critical number would be
reducing the number of vacant properties. When we started 18
months ago, there were more than 80 vacant houses. Today, we
have a total of 30 homes, and one vacant lot. We did have a
second lot, but we sold that recently to an architect who moved
into the neighborhood. Our process has been to visually
identify the distressed homes. Again, we go after the worst and
the blighted. We rely heavily on tax records, county tax
records, to find out who owns the houses, if they're delinquent
on their taxes. And if it is an absentee owner, how many
properties that they may own. The neighborhood leadership
worked with us very closely, in letting us know the property
was behind in its tax bill because of a medical hardship, or a
personal hardship, or if they were a nuisance to the
neighborhood. And very often, they helped us track down the
owners, and their contact information in some interesting
fashion.
Our primary contact is a vacant home, with an absent-type
owner, who's behind on their taxes. Predator lending has had a
real impact on that neighborhood. Occasionally, we have been
able to buy out absentee landlords. A couple of weeks ago,
Business Week did an article on foreclosure prices. One of the
numbers they talked about, was that a foreclosed home reduces
the property values of every home within 200 feet by 1 percent.
Locally, I've heard numbers anywhere from $1,500 to $5,000 per
house. We believe that by targeting vacant properties, we can
make them tax productive again, and increase the values of the
adjacent properties simultaneously.
Vacant properties often attract theft, vandalism, and can
become a hideout for drug dealers or vagrants. Decreasing the
number of vacant properties, raises the property values, which
leads to a great pool of resources for the city and county, as
well as reduces the need, then, for services such as housing
inspection, police, and fire.
Our goal is to make these homes as maintenance free as you
can for a 125-year-old house. We focus on structural,
mechanical issues, such as roof, plumbing, water heater,
wiring, windows, doors, porches, sidewalks heating, air
conditioning, kitchens, and baths. There's not a lot left after
that. Again, making it very expensive to rehab these homes. But
our goal is to make these homes owner occupied dwellings, and
to make them too nice and too expensive to become renter
properties.
There is a rule of thumb, at least here in Dayton, that in
order for a neighborhood to remain stable, it needs to have a
minimum of 60 percent of the structures as owner occupied.
According to the last census data, the South Park planned
development area, not just the historic district, is 32 percent
owner occupied. You see, we have a lot of work cut out for us.
Some of our challenges have been property acquisition. Very
often, a house is tied up in probate, or in an estate. And if
there are any surviving family members, they're not sure who
had the legal right to sell it. Other times, the impacts of
predatory lending, the mortgage value is much higher than the
market value, and it's impossible for an owner to sell. And now
we're seeing, because of the show, people are opportunists, and
are trying to increase their property asking prices.
We've had a very cooperative, but unfortunately ineffective
housing department and housing court. Current ordinances do not
have enough teeth, and absentee owners have learned how to work
the system. They do realize, that often times, the client is
cheaper than the repairs, and the work goes unfinished. What
surprised me, was lower income neighbors who believe the rich
people were trying to make it for them to live in South Park.
Their displeasure is often shown by theft, vandalism, or
sometimes just hurling insults in general.
So while this has been a private investment, I believe the
ideal situation is a combination of public and private
resources, and not so much capital from the city, but resources
as far as street maintenance, police, and fire. Lessons
learned, you can't do this without strong neighborhood
leadership and support. And while noble on our part, this
venture needs to be profitable, in order to attract other
quality investors, to join our cause.
Again, thank you for the opportunity, and I'll be happy to
answer any questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Gasper follows:]
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Mr. Clay. Thank you so much for that testimony. Ms.
Manovich.
STATEMENT OF KARIN MANOVICH
Ms. Manovich. Thank you. I really appreciate the
opportunity to be here, Chairman Clay, Congressman Turner. I'm
speaking today, specifically on the impact on population of
South Park Rehabarama. South Park, as mentioned earlier, was
fortunate enough to have two Rehabaram shows, one in 2001,
where five dwellings were completely renovated, and three new
construction projects were showcased. And in October 2007,
which you toured this morning. The impact on Rehabarama on
South Park has been significant and multi-faceted. The first
Rehabarama show, the eight houses were done--all five of the
houses sold either before or during the show. And three houses
sold within 2 months of the show. The most distressed
properties were targeted with the census data used. We had 14
percent of our housing stock was vacant in 2000 census, with 54
percent rental property and 32 percent owner occupied. The goal
of Rehabarama was to reverse that trend to increase owner
occupancy, decrease vacants, and reduce the number of rental
properties, with South Park being the largest historic district
of Dayton, with nearly 800 homes to tackle. Prior to 2001, the
neighborhood had been struggling on its own without no outside
help to take on these properties house by house. When
Rehabarama occurred in 1993 in another historic district, South
Park and many other neighborhoods lined up, as we saw the
impact on that neighborhood was stunning. And when we finally
had our turn in 2001, the asking price of the homes was
approximately 30 percent above the current market values in the
neighborhood. Most of the homes were modest in size, with the
smallest being just under 800 square feet. Once the show was
over, the high publicity and high attendance of the first show
where several hundred people came and toured the homes, were
professionally decorated by the Dayton society of interior
decorators, that had an impact on the neighborhood that I
didn't expect. It lasted for probably 2\1/2\ years, where new
residences were attracted into the area to purchase the other
homes, not just the homes that had been restored. But also,
other residences of the neighborhood felt competent in
reinvesting, by doing additional homes. The property values in
the neighborhood almost immediately went up about 30 percent.
As a part of that Rehabarama, there was a matching grant
for exterior home improvements to homeowner occupied dwellings
in the neighborhood. Everybody took advantage of that, and used
up the entire fund. So we had a domino effect. We had the eight
homes from Rehabarama. We had the exteriors of the existing
homes. All of this combined to really improve the image of
South Park, and fuel the demand for the housing stock that at
times, exceeded what we had available. So we saw the first
Rehabarama as a catalyst, that drew people back into the city,
increase the number of taxpayers by--occupying uninhabitable
homes. All the original buyers from the 2001 show have remained
in their homes, with the exception of one, who moved out due to
a job transfer. And he was able to quickly sell his house in
2006 for 14 percent above the Rehabarama asking price. So we
have seen a huge positive influence from the first Rehabarama.
And when we had an opportunity to attract private investors
into the neighborhood to do multiple homes.
We did go to the city and lobby for money for the show,
which the city quickly and generously agreed to do. Second
Rehabarama, likewise, has had a domino effect. Before we even
had the show, we were recipients of the American Institute of
Architect's 150 grant, due in large part to our plans for
Rehabarama 2007. We felt--we felt that we could actually
implement some of their suggestions in the Rehabarama show, and
that was crucial in us being selected for that grant. In fact,
in this show, we have three examples of some of their work in
the homes. We have Infill Designs and Renovation Designs that
are geared toward attracting the demographics, that we feel
that we can attract back to the city, the aging baby boomers.
Many of our homes have been designed to not only appeal to
young people just starting out, but also people as they age,
one-story properties.
We've seen a significant impact from both Rehabarama shows,
in that the publicity surrounding the event, and the number of
people coming into the event has managed to attract people to
South Park proactively. We've been able to change our
demographics since the first Rehabamara by increasing a lot of
the incomes, and the professional people who live in South
Park. For example, since the first show, we've added
approximately 25 University professors, 3 physicians, 3
architects, multiple attorneys, healthcare professionals, Air
Force officers, and several business owners. We should see in
the next census, an increase in the income level South Park, as
well as a change to the level of owner-occupied and vacant
properties.
The most significant benefit of Rehabarama is the education
of thousands of suburban dwellers who actually come into the
show, about the benefits of city living, especially the sense
of community that it brings. In the midwest, there's a negative
stigma associated with many cities, where it's assumed that
individuals only live in the city if they're poor and don't
have other options. Bringing people into the city to dispel
these notions is a crucial component on the changing of the
culture, in motivating people to return to the city. Allowing
people to tour the upscale, attractive and affordable homes
that Rehabarama has showcased, sends the message that city
living is desirable, and many people live in the city by
choice. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Manovich follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much, Ms. Manovich.
Ms. Neal, you may proceed.
STATEMENT OF IDOTHA BOOTSIE NEAL
Ms. Neal. Good morning, Mr. Chair, and good morning
Congressman Turner. Welcome to the city of Dayton, the
birthplace of aviation, the center of innovation, and the home
of the Wright brothers and Paul Laurence Dunbar. As you know,
my name is Idotha Bootsie Neal, and I'm the president of Wright
Dunbar, Inc., which is a nonprofit organization dedicated to
the economic and community development of the historic
commercial corridor within the Wright Dunbar village.
Congressman Turner, welcome home. I'd like to thank you for
inviting the congressional subcommittee to hold the hearing
here in Dayton, Ohio. I'd also like to thank you for all of the
hard work that you're doing to help save America's cities, and
which will aid in rebuilding and transforming the
neighborhoods.
Let me tell you just a little bit about the Wright Dunbar
neighborhood. It's the place where the Wright Brothers invented
the plane and African American poet Paul Laurence Dunbar began
his career. For decades, Wright Dunbar was a thriving
neighborhood with middle-class families, and a strong, vibrant
commercial corridor. However, as most urban cities experienced
in the late 1960's, and 1970's, and 1980's, and as a result of
the devastating race riot in the mid 1960's, the Wright Dunbar
community suffered significant disinvestment until the 1990's.
Well as you know, under your leadership, when you were
mayor of the city of Dayton, Congressman Turner, in partnership
with me as an elected official on the Dayton City Commission,
an important initiative was developed, as you've heard,
Rehabarama and Citirama. These programs were targeted in
residential areas where the housing stock was deteriorating,
vacant lots were the norm, and high crime was simply a way of
life. There were very few stores open, and little hope for any
future commercial development.
In 1997, the city of Dayton targeted the Wright Dunbar
neighborhood for redevelopment, and helped the first ever
Citirama, a program which began to give way to a rehabilitated
or newly constructed homes. Prior to the cities initiative,
many abandoned lots and existing homes were valued at $5,000 or
less. Since Citirama initiative was launched, property values
range from $79,000 to $225,000. Now, 10 years later, there are
several housing construction projects still underway. One
partner include ISUS, a charter school, partially funded by
Youthbuild. They're building over 70 new, low to moderate homes
in the area. The Innerwest Community Development Corp., in a
joint venture, has built 70 newly constructed single-family,
lease-to-purchase homes. Ecumenical Neighborhood Development
Corp., another community development partner, has built 50 new
federally subsidized single-family homes. And private sector
developers are continuing to acquire lots in the Wright Dunbar
neighborhoods, to build single family market rate homes.
The 2000 census tract for the city of Dayton would, in
fact, appear to be dismal, one where we see individuals leave
the city. However, the future census data will clearly
represent a reverse in the trends of families moving back into
the Wright Dunbar historic urban neighborhood. At present, the
surrounding neighborhoods are attracting a diverse mix of
families, young professionals and retirees. These families will
need services and amenities to enhance their quality of life.
As stated earlier, the primary mission of Wright Dunbar, Inc.
Is the redevelopment of West Third Street commercial corridor
within the historic district.
Strong American neighborhoods are the key to rebuilding
strong urban core cities. The probability of attracting
businesses to this area would be significantly lower if the
Citirama housing initiatives had not been implemented in 1997.
Wright Dunbar, Inc. Is working diligently to attract businesses
that will bring the necessary goods and services, along with
employment opportunities for neighborhood residents, which were
critical components for stabilizing or transforming a
neighborhood. These opportunities will positively stimulate not
only the local economy, but the national economy as well.
Without the infusion of financial resources targeted to the
areas where poverty exists, unemployment is a way of life,
health challenges are at a crisis, and housing and
infrastructure is deteriorating. The future of America's core
cities is dismal.
Census data clearly identifies the areas where the needs
are the greatest. Congressman Turner, as you know, our decision
to fund Rehabarama and Citirama's throughout Dayton was based
on this data.
Since 1997, the Innerwest urban neighborhood of historic
Wright Dunbar received $107 million of public and private
sector resources. Those resources were leveraged as a result of
the initial investments made by the Federal and local
governments. The city of Dayton's Rehabarama and Citirama
initiatives were the catalyst that ignited community
development. And those initiatives in turn have ignited the
momentum of commercial redevelopment, and the potential for
private sector investment.
It is critically important that accurate census tract
information be collected, and Federal funds, and special tax
initiatives, and programs and products be targeted to those
neighborhoods that have the greatest need. Thank you,
Congressman Turner. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for coming to Dayton,
and hearing what we have to say about the redevelopment in our
community, and how census tract information is very important.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Neal follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Clay. Thank you very much, Ms. Neal. I'm--it's just too
bad I couldn't get to the Wright Dunbar neighborhood, also.
Ms. Neal. Let me please extend a personal invitation to
come back.
Mr. Turner. Actually, we're not far. When we're on our way
to the airport, we might go there.
Mr. Clay. Thank you. Thank you. We will now enter into the
question period. Congressman Turner can start us off.
Mr. Turner. I've got basically three questions. One that
goes to the issue of the availability of census information,
and capturing what you're accomplishing. The second will be
about the issue of the public policy of Rehabarama, that we're
investing in market rate housing, as opposed to the Federal
programs that tend to target poverty. And the third will be, in
ways that we might be able to greater encourage these types of
programs like what Theresa's doing, where she has a separate
entity owned privately.
Bootsie, I want to start with you on a question of, you
know, the Wright Dunbar neighborhood. Although there were some
structures that were there, largely was an area where there
were vacant lots, and vacant buildings. The investment that has
happened with Rehabarama, and Citirama, and then with the
Youthbuild project with ISUS, has a neighborhood not only of
changing demographics of the resources that are there, but also
really, a whole new community that is populating the area where
there had not been a concentration of population.
You're marketing the Wright Dunbar strip for commercial
development. And it must be difficult, as you go to commercial
partners, trying to encourage them to come into an area, that
you can see when you drive through, and when you walk the
streets and see that the new families that there--the new
homeowners, but that you don't have a piece of paper you can
put in front of them, and show them the change. How does that
work?
Ms. Neal. It's a challenge. It's a challenge. However,
we're going to continue, in terms of our marketing, in terms of
cultivation. We are fortunate to have National Park as one of
our anchors, so we're able to attract a number of visitors to
come to the community, so that partnership has been critically
important. We have been very fortunate, with the residents that
have come back to the area. Two things have occurred with
Wright Dunbar. No. 1, everyone was not dislocated. Individuals
who have been able to stand through the drugs, the
prostitution, the disinvestment have been able to maintain
their homes. But also because of Rehabarama, Citirama has
brought a very diverse mix of individuals to the community, so
it's doing exactly what we would hope that it needs. It's been
a struggle without support from the Federal Government. We've
been the recipients of the EDI grant, VA HUD grant, bringing
those sources to the commercial development in order to
stabilize buildings without those kinds of dollars, it would
not have happened. We now have all of our properties
structurally stabilized. Roofs are on the property. But what we
need, is assistance or continued assistance to get those
buildings from a shell to a white box. I then believe, that
with that gap being filled, that businesses will come to the
area because of the quality of the housing, because of the
diversity of the community that's been attracted to the area,
and simply because it's a good economic move, because we're
close to downtown.
We have great accessibility because of 70 and 75, that the
commercial development will follow. As you're beginning to see
along the Brown Street commercial corridor, near the South Park
and UD area, which was a part of the Genesis project, where
there were two Rehabaramas. So we're very confident, that with
continued partnerships, that we'll be able to have the
commercial development.
Mr. Turner. That goes to my next question. You talked about
the people in the community, were able to stay in the
community. There were a number of Federal programs and State
programs, local dollars that were stacked, so this wasn't just
market-rate housing that was undertaken. But I'd like Karin and
Bootsie to talk about the issue of the public policy of market-
rate housing. People sometimes criticize, when the project has
begun, that there is a subsidy that is going to market-rate
housing. There aren't Federal dollars that you can go and get.
Most of those dollars are tied to low and moderate income
housing. But when you do a market-rate housing project, the
criticism tends to abate after the project is done, because
people see what you have reclaimed, the historic nature of the
community. You have the structures that are now there, have
improved the quality of the neighborhood. But also, people see
that it's not economic segregation, it's actually ending
economic segregation. You're making a more diverse community.
The people who are there, stay in the community, and
participate in the benefits of the transformation. But also,
our demographics of our communities are diverse. And we not
only do the market rate project of Rehabarama, but also then
low income projects, Youthbuild projects, low income tax code
projects, all within the same area. So the neighborhood remains
diverse. Bootsie, could you talk about that for a moment? And
Karin, I'd also like you to comment about your neighborhood.
Ms. Neal. I think it's a great tool, the fact that we were
able at a local level, be able to put together a development
fund, to help with the initial investment. Individuals actually
criticized us in a real way, in terms of investing in the first
four houses in Wright Dunbar. And it took substantial subsidy,
in order to make that happen. But of course, that initial
investment has now spurred millions of dollars above both
public and private sector dollars. I don't believe that if we
had not made that investment, that this area would experience
the kind of redevelopment that is currently undergoing. Had we
not made that investment initially, you would have seen
individuals continuing to live in poor housing, and in an area
that was just riddled with a number of social challenges. I
think that because of your leadership, because of the
partnerships created with the HPA, and other organizations that
we've been able to now change the neighborhood, keep people
there, attract new individuals, impact significantly the income
tax revenue for the local government. And even more
importantly, create a place where people feel safe, and they
can raise their family and their children, and have the
benefits of what I think is great in urban cities, and that's
such diversity in close proximity to a lot of places.
Mr. Turner. Karin, you have been in South Park a long time.
And I know you know, as one of the benefits of the community,
is the diverse population that is there. Can you talk about how
Rehabarama fits within the economic diversity of the community,
and what you see as the benefits of defeating economic
segregation?
Ms. Manovich. We're fortunate in South Park, to
automatically have economic diversity, and have had it most of
our history, due to our housing stock. The founder of National
Cash Register Corp. platted our neighborhood originally. He
wanted his factory workers to live among his executives. So we
have four of our 5,000 square foot mansions interspersed with
three room cottages, similar to the one you saw today that was
basically three or four rooms. So our neighborhood has been
economically diverse since its inception.
Now, Rehabarama, the first Rehabarama, as I mentioned, had
a housing less than 800 square feet. And we had several small
cottages in this one, that maintains our economic diversity.
Our asking prices range originally for the first Rehabarama,
the lowest one was close to 100,000. And the highest one this
time, was 250,000. So there's a wide range of affordability in
the houses. You're not just going to get really wealthy people.
You're going to get a variety of homeowners.
The other interesting thing about our neighborhood that
makes it attractive and diverse, is the fact that many of the
houses were originally built as multi units. Now, we've
converted many of them back to larger single-family homes, but
we will always have a significant rental population in South
Park due to the--due to the architecture. A lot of the cottages
are too small to be ever owner occupied. And so the
neighborhood has worked to make sure that the rental property
is kept at a level that is conducive to good living
environments. So many of us--I, in fact, have rehabbed about 13
rental units in South Park myself, that I maintain, that I can
make sure that people have good, affordable housing, and that I
can keep the economic diversity alive in our neighborhood. And
many of the residents have done the same thing. There's
probably at least 25 residents who are landlords, not because
that's their business choice or their calling, but in order to
provide good, safe, affordable housing for a variety of
economic levels in the neighborhood.
Mr. Turner. Dan, you have institutional partners in your
neighborhood. You were talking about--talk a moment about their
interest, what brings them to the table?
Mr. Barton. There's a couple of things that brought them to
the table. One, is within an established neighborhood, very
often there's infrastructure that has landlocked the parcels.
And the expansion can either take a cooperative or a
confrontational path. We wanted to make sure that we
facilitated Grandview and the other institution, having a path
that was--where we would all work together.
At the same time, they have resources that we don't. What
we've tried to do is, take advantage of their resources that
they could leverage for acquiring blight and removing it. And
in either swapping or allowing that land to go into new
development, either for their campus, or for new housing to be
created. They also understand, that they can't thrive--they
can't encourage patients to come to their hospital, doctors to
operate in their hospital if the perception is, that this is a
terrible and unsafe neighborhood.
So shoring up the neighborhood around the institution helps
the institution. And the institutions have resources that will
help us achieve our goals, in terms of removing blight, and
facilitating new construction. We're also looking at Grandview
very heavily, because they are a training hospital. We want to
encourage those people who train there, and then become a part
of the community for their permanent career, to invest in
buying into the neighborhood, again, putting economic strength
back into the mix of the population.
Mr. Turner. David, your experience has run the gamut, from
being the head of the Homeowners Association and bringing their
resources into the inner city, which was unusual, to now being
vice president of the faith based St. Mary's Neighborhood
Development Corp. that does senior low-income housing, tax
credits, and housing rehabilitation. When you look at the urban
area, one of the impediments that we have to economic
revitalization, neighborhood revitalization is our aging
housing stock. You have seen that, as you have gone for
rehabilitation, and then in ways that you've brought in new
construction. Can you tell us some of the demographics of the
neighborhoods you see, not of the populations, but of the
structures themselves, the infrastructure that impacts the
ability to be successful for housing development?
Mr. Bohardt. Well, Dayton is--Congressman Turner, Mr.
Chairman, Dayton is and it's neighborhoods are severely
challenged because of the age--first of all, because of the age
of our inventory, second because of the obsolescence of the
inventory. Almost everyone knows that Dayton has very old
housing stock, but not as many realize that as Theresa does
now, that all that housing stock is anything less than
obsolescence, simply because there's only one bathroom in the
house, or there aren't enough bedrooms in the house, or there
just isn't enough volume in size to the property to make
rehabilitation cost effective.
Third, I think, this relates to the purpose of this
hearing, is that the census data are not neighborhood friendly,
in the sense that the gentleman from the Ohio Department of
Development had mentioned the lag time factor with the census.
It only takes between 12 and 18 months for a neighborhood block
base to totally implode. We've seen that in Dayton, in the last
5 to 10 years, and especially in the last three to four, going
primarily to the impacts of predatory lending. And so it would
be useful, within the quiver of economic redevelopment tools
that we had, I think, if census data could be ratcheted down,
and be able to focus and telescope on specific neighborhoods.
I'll just make one more point, and I'll be quiet. The
average median income, which is the barometer that we use in
many facts to determine housing economic development policies
in the Dayton Metropolitan statistical areas, $59,890, or
higher than the Los Angeles, California AMI. But if you look
just at the city of Dayton, for example, that income would
barely be above $25,000 per house sold. So if we had--as I
said, if we had more highly refined data and Federal policies
that essentially enabled us to use that data, to get access on
a higher priority basis, no offense to Congressman Turner's
constituency in Warren County, they don't have the
neighborhoods that the city of Dayton has. They don't have the
needs that the city of Dayton neighborhoods have. So if we had
Federal policy based on census data, Federal funding policy
that actually enabled us to do finer precision targeting for
economic development than cities like Dayton, cities throughout
Ohio and the country. I think would be better served, and we
would have a better chance of revitalizing a lot of those
neighborhoods.
Mr. Turner. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Clay. Thank you. Thank you so much. I have a panel wide
question, and Ms. Manovich touched on it somewhat, you know.
And I'm very impressed with the rehab and the Rehabarama,
sounds something like Obama, but----
Mr. Turner. This came first.
Mr. Clay. But I'm really curious as to how much
displacement occurred in these communities. And we can start
with Mr. Barton. You touched on multi-family housing, and how
you maintain that in those communities that are going through
this transition. Do you actually get the people to remain in
that community, or do they have to leave? Because see, if they
leave, then it would probably be difficult to get them back?
And then, we are almost running in place, when it comes to the
census, because you're not adding new people, if people are
leaving while some are coming. Is there--does Dayton, or does
the rehab community have much of a policy when it comes to
multi-family housing and actually, the diversity of those who
are moving back to the city? I'll start with you, Mr. Barton.
You start, and everybody think about a response. Go ahead.
Mr. Barton. Within our initiative called the Renaissance
Alliance, we're not displacing anyone. We're taking, you know,
occupied buildings, unoccupied land, and building new, so that
the remaining structures are supported, and the accumulative
population is coming up. Our population in the Grafton Hill
area was the highest density in the county, but it has declined
from its highest density in the early 1970's, to a level now--
where we're probably at about 65 percent of the population we
had at that peak. That unoccupied portion is what we're looking
to redevelop, so that we can attract people back to something
that the market wants now, that isn't there, and that diversity
strengthens.
And one of the things that we're doing, because we're
sensitive about that very issue, is we're working on
mechanisms, so that the market rate structures that are being
built, are giving us an income stream that will assist us with
more blight removal and renovation. And in some of that blight
removal, such as Grand Place in our neighborhood--at Grand and
Salem, our targeted for low mods, but we end up with a better
accumulative quality of life for everyone within the
neighborhood.
Mr. Turner. Great.
Mr. Clay. Thank you.
Mr. Bohardt. Mr. Chairman, Congressman Turner, in 1970, the
city had housing inventory of 270,000 people. The city
population now is plus or minus 152,000 or 153,000 people.
About 15 percent of all of the house units in the city of
Dayton are being boarded up, or vacant. And it manipulates very
much to Dan's issue. Our issue is not with dislocating
households. Our issue is with stabilizing neighborhoods,
getting sufficient level of investment, so that we can both
maintain the residents that we have in our neighborhood, and
attract more people to urban neighborhoods. So I agree totally
with Dan.
Mr. Clay. And you know, Mr. Bohardt, that is the challenge
of quite a few older urban communities, is how we get people
back to the urban core. Because I represent St. Louis,
Missouri. And over the last 50 years, we've lost over half a
million people in the city itself. And so now that's our
challenge in St. Louis and older urban cities, how we build it,
and make it attractive to bring people back.
Mr. Bohardt. I would add, too, Mr. Chairman probably
constituents with your experience, as we do that, I would hope
that Federal policy would not encourage the reconcentration of
large portions of our population, in appropriately large big
box housing communities. And that much of the issue that I
mentioned, and Dan mentioned earlier, would be solved if we
found a rational way to disperse in an even handed way, housing
that was served the needs of all of our citizens, irrespective
of how much they earned.
Mr. Clay. Thank you for that response. Ms. Brandt, anything
to add?
Ms. Brandt. I think that we are a little different. Because
back in the really dire time of any neighborhood, probably 40
percent of our neighborhood was abandoned houses. And now we
are probably less than 10 percent, that are abandoned houses.
However, the houses that are there have been converted back to
single-family homes. So we've actually probably actually raised
our population in the area from that. But we are also unique
because we are the highest minority level of all of the
historic districts.
Mr. Clay. Ms. Gasper.
Ms. Gasper. Reiterating what you heard already, we are
targeting vacant houses. We rarely go after owner occupied. And
only in a couple instances have renters been moved out of a
property, and they stayed within the neighborhood. If you are
familiar with the concept of broken windows, the more eyes you
have on the street, the less crime you have. I think those that
will be displaced are the ones that don't want to be watched.
And they'll pick up--bad guys will leave if you watch them
enough. I feel too, the existing neighbors feel like they can
now safely reinvest more in their homes, and realize that they
stand a better chance of getting that investment back out,
should they decide to sell down the road. I think too, what's
working in favor of cities right now, people really want to
know their neighbors. And I think they're getting really tired
of the cookie cutter nature of the suburbs, and realize that if
you had gone to the fifth beige and brick house on the right,
you have gone too far. You need to go to the fourth one, that
factors into it. And also, I just was--as a side story, I read
on a recent blog post regarding Rehabarama, somebody said that
they're from the suburbs, and Rehabarama introduced them to the
city of Dayton they'd never seen before, and they'd totally
rethink their opinion of the city of Dayton as a result.
Mr. Clay. How about, have you noticed--I've heard you
mention--several witnesses mention property values have
increased. With that increase of property values, has there
been an overall reduction in the insurance rates for home
insurance, as well as auto insurance? You know, all of those
things impact disadvantaged neighborhoods in a negative way.
With the new--new neighbors moving in, has that helped in that
area?
Ms. Manovich. It hasn't changed yet. We haven't seen it
change.
Mr. Clay. You're still pretty high?
Mr. Turner. We're pretty inexpensive here in Dayton anyway.
I don't know that they could get much lower.
Mr. Clay. OK. He's bragging. He's bragging now. Go ahead,
Ms. Manovich.
Ms. Manovich. I'm going to echo what everybody else said.
We're not really displacing people. We're filling vacant homes.
In South Park, we've aggressively tried to increase our
population by going after the people that we think would be
most likely to settle in the neighborhood. We border on a major
university. And we could get initiative with them, where we're
mailing South Park literature directly to out-of-town employees
with their contract for hire, so that they have in their hands
all of the information on South Park, and why to live there.
We've managed to attract a number of professors into the area.
We've already gone with Miami Valley Hospital and approached
them about doing a summer program with their walking distance
from the neighborhood, also, to work on getting their interns,
both as renters and as an owner occupants in the neighborhood.
So we're going out aggressively target marketing people most
likely to live in the neighborhood, and the selling the
neighborhood on that. With the university, we actually bring
the people in private homes on their relocation weekends, and
introduce them to other professors in the neighborhood, and
really sell city living in the neighborhood very aggressively.
We feel in the next census, that our population will grow
because of bringing the new people in.
Mr. Clay. And you mentioned with the original plat and of
the neighborhoods, that will maintain the economic and probably
racial diversity of this community?
Ms. Manovich. It's very affordable. We always say we have
something for everyone, in terms of housing.
Mr. Clay. Ms. Neal.
Ms. Neal. We clearly did not displace anyone, because there
was no one there, except some diehards who had strong kinship
to the community. But we had a lot of vacant lots, and that was
what is unique about Citirama. It was actually new Infill
construction. So bringing the individuals back to the community
has been a challenge. And also the fact that because of the
leadership at that time, we made a conscious decision not to
displace even those who were there. Because as you said, once
they leave, it's hard to get them back. And I ditto what all of
the other witnesses have said. But I would truly say one of the
greatest challenges in terms of redeveloping and transforming
an inner city core neighborhood, is to bring the goods and
services that people need. We're, in fact, going to be losing
within west Dayton, Kroger's, one of our grocery stores. We
will not have, unless you have reliable transportation after 8,
you will have to drive almost 10 miles, in fact, to get an
aspirin. So commercial development in those kind of products
and tax programs that will encourage private sector to not only
come to the neighborhood, make key investment, but be obligated
to stay for a significant period of time. Once, in fact, they
receive those benefits, so that the families within those
communities can have goods and services. So it's not just
rehabbing. The homes are critically important, but the
commercial development that will bring those goods and services
as well as the employment opportunities for the residents of
those communities as well.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much. Mr. Turner, anything else?
Mr. Turner. One closing question. Theresa, when you look at
census data, it's to take a snapshot of what is. So many
people, when they look at that data, have an inability to see
what could be. And you had the benefit with South Park, and you
had a family familiarity with it, and an affinity, where you
could look at what could be. Your investment in Rehabarama,
you're continuing to show others what could be in Dayton
neighborhoods, to bring people in. What are some of the things
that you would say to people who are considering trying to have
that forward vision of what could be about urban areas and
urban neighborhoods?
Ms. Gasper. You have to be thick skinned, bring plenty of
Dramamine for the roller coaster ride. I feel very turfy toward
the neighborhood. I may not live there right now, but it's
always been mine. I worry about what type of investors will
come into the neighborhood now. Will they just be trying to get
rich quick, or will they have an honest commitment to it? I
look at this as a way of protecting the investment people that
care, and others have made. They have put a lot into their
home, and it is their single largest investment. And I think
that investment needs to be protected. So encouraging others to
do so, it's going to be a hard sale, because these houses are
so badly abused. And they require so much, and to try to take a
Victorian home that has lots of small rooms, when people want
an open floor plan today is difficult. So we have to be
creative. We do have several projects underway. We're taking
two very small cottages, and making one-medium sized family
home. We're taking doubles, and converting them into singles.
So I think you have to be creative, but you also have to have
guts to do it.
Mr. Turner. Theresa, I want to thank you for what you're
doing, because you have picked up on the energy that's in the
neighborhood, the past of what people have done for investment.
And you have taken it to a new level, and encouraged everyone.
I appreciate what you're doing. And Mr. Chairman, I want to
thank you also, for giving us the opportunity to highlight what
these individuals are doing.
I told you when we were on our way to this spot for this
hearing, that a lot of blood, sweat, and tears of these people
have changed these neighbors. And I appreciate you giving us
this opportunity to highlight what they're doing, which I do
think those have a significance, too. Thank you.
Mr. Clay. I certainly do. I want to thank Congressman
Turner for being a host to the subcommittee, and for showing us
around today. Let me thank all of the witnesses on this panel,
for your expertise in this area. And say that I am--I am truly
impressed about what I have seen today, the efforts of the
people in the Dayton community to actually make a difference,
and to attract people back into the inner core of the city, and
as Ms. Gasper said, in creative ways. And I thank you for that.
And this is of national significance, because this story needs
to be told around the country, of how we get people back into
the inner core. Let me thank you all for today, for
participating in today's hearing, and that concludes this
hearing. Hearing is adjourned. Thank you.
Mr. Turner. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 12:56 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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