[Senate Hearing 110-526]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 110-526
CRIMES ASSOCIATED WITH POLYGAMY: THE NEED FOR A COORDINATED STATE AND
FEDERAL RESPONSE
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
JULY 24, 2008
__________
Serial No. J-110-110
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
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44-773 PDF WASHINGTON DC: 2008
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COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont, Chairman
EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania
JOSEPH R. BIDEN, Jr., Delaware ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah
HERB KOHL, Wisconsin CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California JON KYL, Arizona
RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin JEFF SESSIONS, Alabama
CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois JOHN CORNYN, Texas
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island TOM COBURN, Oklahoma
Bruce A. Cohen, Chief Counsel and Staff Director
Stephanie A. Middleton, Republican Staff Director
Nicholas A. Rossi, Republican Chief Counsel
C O N T E N T S
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STATEMENTS OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS
Page
Hatch, Hon. Orrin G., a U.S. Senator from the State of Utah...... 3
Specter, Hon. Arlen, a U.S. Senator from the State of
Pennsylvania................................................... 2
Whitehouse, Hon. Sheldon, a U.S. Senator from the State of Rhode
Island......................................................... 1
WITNESSES
Abbott, Greg, Attorney General, State of Texas, Austin, Texas.... 14
Brower, Gregory A., United States Attorney, District of Nevada,
Las Vegas, Nevada.............................................. 7
Fischer, Daniel, Sandy, Utah..................................... 26
Goddard, Terry, Attorney General, State of Arizona, Phoenix,
Arizona........................................................ 11
Jessop, Carolyn, West Jordan, Utah............................... 29
Reid, Hon. Harry, a U.S. Senator from the State of Nevada........ 3
Singular, Stephen, Denver, Colorado.............................. 24
Tolman, Brett, United States Attorney, District of Utah, Salt
Lake City, Utah................................................ 9
SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD
Abbott, Greg, Attorney General, State of Texas, Austin, Texas,
statement...................................................... 40
Brower, Gregory A., United States Attorney, District of Nevada,
Las Vegas, Nevada, statement................................... 44
Fischer, Daniel, Sandy, Utah, statement and attachments.......... 49
Goddard, Terry, Attorney General, State of Arizona, Phoenix,
Arizona, statement............................................. 79
Hamilton, Marci A., Paul R. Verkuil, Chair in Public Law,
Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law, Yeshiva University, New
York, New York, statement...................................... 85
Hammon, Sara, Mesquite, Nevada, statement........................ 89
Jessop, Carolyn, West Jordan, Utah, statement.................... 92
Parker, Rodney R., Snow, Christensen & Martineau, Salt Lake City,
Utah, letters and attachments.................................. 104
Photographs of Warren Jeffs and two of his wives................. 172
Reid, Hon. Harry, a U.S. Senator from the State of Nevada,
statement...................................................... 175
Singular, Stephen, Denver, Colorado, statement................... 177
Tolman, Brett, United States Attorney, District of Utah, Salt
Lake City, Utah, statement..................................... 181
CRIMES ASSOCIATED WITH POLYGAMY: THE NEED FOR A COORDINATED STATE AND
FEDERAL RESPONSE
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THURSDAY, JULY 24, 2008
U.S. Senate,
Committee on the Judiciary,
Washington, D.C.
The Committee met, Pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room
SD-226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Sheldon
Whitehouse, presiding.
Present: Senators Whitehouse, Cardin, Specter, and Hatch.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, A U.S. SENATOR
FROM THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND
Senator Whitehouse. The hearing will come to order.
Today we will have testimony about criminal activity
associated with polygamy. As recent events in Texas make clear,
this is an issue of real concern, particularly in the West and
Southwest, and it deserves this Committee's attention. Indeed,
the Federal Government has a great interest in addressing the
child abuse, sexual abuse, fraud, and other Federal and State
crimes that have originated in polygamous communities.
We will first hear from the distinguished Majority Leader,
Senator Reid. At the outset, I would like to take a moment to
thank Senator Reid for his leadership on this important issue,
as so many others. I admire his determination to support
victims of polygamy-related crime and to ensure that Federal,
State, and local officials are doing everything possible to
prevent and prosecute such crimes. To that end, he has
introduced the Victims of Polygamy Assistance Act, which would
authorize a grant program to support victims of polygamy-
related crime. This measure would also create a task force
comprised of relevant Federal agencies to ensure a coordinated
Federal approach to this issue.
Our second panel will consist of the United States
Attorneys from Nevada and Utah and the Attorneys General of
Arizona and Texas. As a former United States Attorney and State
Attorney General, I have a deep appreciation for the important
and difficult work that they do and of the need for close
cooperation between Federal and State law enforcement. I know
that each of these law enforcement officers is determined to
confront this issue, and I look forward to their testimony.
Finally, our third panel will consist of Carolyn Jessop, a
woman who bravely escaped from a polygamous sect at age 35
after being subjected to a coerced marriage and countless other
depravities; Dr. Daniel Fischer, a former member of a
polygamous community who has since started a nonprofit
organization dedicated to helping victims; and Steven Singular,
a journalist who has covered this issue extensively.
There are tens of thousands of people living on polygamous
communities, some of which have become a source of serious,
almost unspeakable criminal activity. Women and girls are
treated like property; children are viewed as a source of
labor; and teenage boys who do not comply with the harsh rules
of the community are cast off into the streets.
It is my hope that this hearing will help ensure that
Federal and State law enforcement resources are properly
focused on this issue and operating in a coordinated manner.
Perhaps even more important, I hope this hearing will shine a
light on these crimes and on the inspiring stories of those who
have escaped and tried to help.
Before proceeding with the first panel, I turn to my
distinguished colleague from Pennsylvania, the Ranking Member,
Senator Arlen Specter.
STATEMENT OF HON. ARLEN SPECTER, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE
OF PENNSYLVANIA
Senator Specter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think this is a
very important hearing, and I commend our distinguished
Majority Leader, Senator Reid, for taking steps to move this
important program into the Federal arena with a task force to
tackle it at all levels.
There is no doubt that when you deal with items like
statutory rape and domestic abuse and child molestation, you
are dealing with some of the toughest problems in our society.
I recollect my days as a prosecuting attorney, D.A. of
Philadelphia, and noted that there was a tremendous amount of
child abuse contributing to the delinquency of minors and
domestic violence which went really unreported in a family
context. And this is especially true where you have a religious
overtone, where there are religious organizations which have
unusual living arrangements and have societal arrangements
which are conducive to this kind of conduct. And obviously we
have to be very careful that we respect First Amendment rights
and freedom of religion, but those rights do not extend to
domestic violence, child abuse, statutory rape.
The Texas situation has produced some very difficult
problems with respect to what is within the province of the
family and where the courts can appropriately intervene. And I
think it is good to shine the public spotlight, as we are
today, and to use this as a background for proceeding further.
The Federal Government has a real role to play here. It
involves many States and very, very serious issues, and the
potential impact of organized crime or racketeering is
something that we really ought to take a close look at.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Whitehouse. I understand that the distinguished
Senator from Utah, a former Chairman of this Committee, would
also like to make a brief opening statement. Is that correct,
Senator Hatch?
Senator Hatch. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Whitehouse. Please proceed. You are recognized for
an opening statement.
STATEMENT OF HON. ORRIN G. HATCH, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE
OF UTAH
Senator Hatch. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I will be very brief, as
I know you have a full agenda today with several knowledgeable
witnesses.
Let me say before we begin this hearing, our focus should
be to explore the proper role of State and Federal Governments
in protecting innocent children and women and getting them out
of unlawful and abusive situations. And I believe our witnesses
will testify about the important role Federal and State
officials play in this effort. Because innocent women and
children are involved in this issue, they deserve careful and
respectful consideration as we explore the best way to
coordinate State and Federal responses to any problems that may
exists.
So, Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for giving me this
opportunity to say these few words.
Senator Whitehouse. I would now like to recognize to make a
statement to our Committee--I understand that the Majority
Leader has considerable pressing business and that he will
leave after he has made his statement, but we are very
privileged and honored on the Judiciary Committee to have
Majority Leader Harry Reid here with us today. Leader Reid grew
up in Searchlight, Nevada, as the son of a hard-rock miner
father and a mother who took in laundry. There, Leader Reid
attended a one-room schoolhouse. In 1977, he was appointed
Chairman of the Nevada Gaming Commission, where for 5 years he
worked to clean up Nevada's gaming industry. Leader Reid
continues to work every day on behalf of those who are less
able to fight for themselves, and that is most evident by his
attendance at this hearing today.
For your statement, Leader Reid, I am honored to recognize
you.
STATEMENT OF HON. HARRY REID, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF
NEVADA
Senator Reid. Thank you very much, Senator Whitehouse. I
want the record to be spread with how much I appreciate Senator
Leahy, the Chairman of this Committee, acknowledging that this
is an issue that deserves attention, and he, with Senator
Specter, authorizing this Committee to meet today under these
circumstances. I am very happy that my friend, my neighbor from
the State of Utah, Senator Hatch, is present.
Senator Whitehouse, I especially acknowledge the work that
you have done in preparing for this hearing. I have talked to
your staff. They have devoted a significant amount of time to
this hearing. Your background as being Attorney General and
United States Attorney is a perfect fit for chairing this
hearing, and I appreciate it very much. As I have expressed so
many different times, I really admire your work ethic and the
good work you do for the State of Rhode Island and our country.
Mr. Chairman, I choose, because I have other
responsibilities, not to come and testify before committees
very often. I felt that this was essential that I be here. The
lawless conduct of polygamous communities in the United States
deserves national attention and Federal action. This hearing is
an important milestone in the ongoing effort to curtail the
pervasive criminal behavior.
By coincidence, this hearing is being held on the 24th day
of July, a day that is celebrated by Mormons around the world
as Pioneer Day. This is a holiday that commemorates arrival of
the Mormon pioneers to Great Salt Lake in 1847. We do honor to
our pioneer ancestors by condemning those who have wrongfully
cloaked themselves in the trappings of religion to obscure
their true criminal purposes.
For many years, these organizations received little
attention from the rest of America. They isolated themselves to
remote locations and required their members to cutoff contact
with the outside world. In the West, I guess we have an
attitude that says, ``Live and let live.'' So we try not to
bother our neighbors, and we expect the same from them. But
polygamists have taken advantage of this attitude to form a
sophisticated, wealthy, and vast criminal organization that has
gone largely unchecked by Government agencies for a long time.
As you mentioned in my introduction, Mr. Chairman, during
4-plus years of my life I spent as the Chairman of the Nevada
Gaming Commission. Until that job, even though I had been
Attorney General for the State and held many other political
offices up to that time, organized crime was just a couple of
words that meant nothing. It was something that took place in
the dark alleys of New York and Chicago, and I did not think it
had any bearing on the State of Nevada. But I came to realize
that was not true.
I was stunned to realize that the then-Aladdin Hotel was
run by mobsters out of Detroit. I was stunned to learn that
major hotels were being run out of a prison in Kansas City
where a murderer by the name of Civella ran the operations of a
number of major hotels and was so powerful, and the person we
thought was running those hotels in a telephone conversation
that the Federal Government was involved and we would never
have known but for the Federal Government. There was wire
surveillance going on. The man, the murderer in Kansas City,
was asked a question by the person we thought was running that
operation. He said, ``What should I do? ''--talking about the
Stardust Hotel. And he said, ``Sell the son of a bitch.'' And
the man sold the hotel.
That is what organized crime is all about, Mr. Chairman.
There are mob bosses. There were mob bosses. And that is what
we were up against.
I learned that they practiced extortion, embezzlement,
fraud, public corruption, obstruction of justice, and witness
tampering. I faced death threats. My wife found a bomb on our
car. Those were not pleasant times in my recollection. I
constantly worried about my family. We had to clear out my
office on many occasions with threatening phone calls. We had
to have people help take my kids to school. You get the
picture.
I am not here to tell anyone on this Committee, this
Judiciary Committee, that polygamous communities in the United
States are like they were in Las Vegas. But they are a form of
organized crime. I repeat, I am not saying they are the same
thing as the crime syndicates were in Las Vegas. But they
engage in an ongoing pattern of serious crimes that we ignore
at our peril.
The most obvious crimes being committed in these
communities are bigamy, child abuse; teen or pre-teen girls are
forced to marry older men and bear their children as little
girls. But the criminal activity that goes on in these places
is far broader. Witnesses at this hearing will describe a web
of criminal conduct that includes welfare fraud, tax evasion,
massive corruption, and strong-arm tactics to maintain what
they think is the status quo. These crimes are systematic,
sophisticated, and are frequently carried out across State
lines.
Today, polygamists have spread from Utah and Arizona into
many other States, including Nevada, Colorado, North Dakota,
Missouri, New Mexico, and, of course, Texas. They have even
expanded across international borders into Canada and Mexico.
State authorities are on the front lines of this fight. Now,
Mr. Chairman, I think we have to acknowledge on occasion that
when you make a mistake, you have to acknowledge it. A few
months ago, I was so frustrated that I made some statements
that said the States were not doing enough. And maybe they are
not, but they are doing their best. They have worked very, very
hard, and I have apologized to individual Attorneys General
personally. But it has also, as a result of this, opened my
eyes to the fact that States need help.
They are, I repeat, on the front lines of this fight, and
it is a fight. I have developed great respect for their work,
and today you are going to hear from hard-working State
Attorneys General and their efforts. You are going to hear from
United States Attorneys and their efforts.
I have long believed that the Federal Government should
play a larger role in this fight. The States lack the resources
to adequately investigate these organizations, and the Federal
Government's expertise in investigating ongoing criminal
enterprises is needed. The Department of Justice should be
helping States enforce their own laws, and it can beef up
enforcement of Federal laws.
Greg Brower, the United States Attorney from Nevada, my
home, will testify today. Greg and his colleague from Utah,
Brett Tolman, a State that I have great affection for--I
graduated from Utah State University as a very young man. All
five of my children have gone to universities--a university in
Utah. So I have great respect for Brett Tolman, Greg's
counterpart from Utah. They are going to discuss the growing
Federal-State partnership to address these lawless communities.
I have encouraged this Federal-State partnership, as I
indicated, for some time. I wrote my first letter to then-
Attorney General Gonzales in 2006 to suggest a Federal task
force on polygamy. He did not bother to answer my letter. In
recent months, I have worked with Deputy Attorney General Mark
Filip. I have spoken to Attorney General Mukasey.
Deputy Attorney General Filip, a former Federal judge and a
former law professor from the University of Chicago, has been
so good to work with. I appreciate Attorney General Mukasey
referring this work to Judge Filip, and he has assigned a
senior Federal prosecutor to coordinate Federal action in this
area. I again extend my appreciation to General Mukasey and
Judge Filip.
Yesterday, I introduced a bill to strengthen this Federal-
State partnership. The Victims of Polygamy Assistance Act would
establish a task force under the supervision of the Deputy
Attorney General to bring together the various agencies
necessary to deal with the broad pattern of criminal behavior
perpetrated by polygamists. The bill also authorizes grants to
assist victims. Because these organizations routinely threaten,
harass, and tamper with victims planning on testifying against
them, it is necessary to provide targeted funds so law
enforcement can protect them and, if necessary, shield their
identity. These lawless organizations must be stopped, Mr.
Chairman.
I appreciate the efforts of this Committee to help shed
light on this growing problem, and I applaud our witnesses: Mr.
Singular for writing this book, which I thought was very, very
enlightening to me and many people in our country; these brave
witnesses who are coming, who have been involved in these
sects; and all others who stand up against powerful criminal
forces.
I would be happy, Mr. Chairman, to answer any questions if
the panel has any.
Senator Whitehouse. On behalf of the Committee, Leader
Reid, we very much appreciate your presence here in the
Committee. We very much appreciate your statement, and we very
much appreciate your leadership on this issue.
May I call up the second panel of our law enforcement
witnesses. Please remain standing to be sworn.
Please stand and raise your right hand. Do you affirm that
the testimony you are about to give before the Committee will
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God?
Mr. Brower. I do.
Mr. Tolman. I do.
Mr. Goddard. I do.
Mr. Abbott. I do.
Senator Whitehouse. Please be seated.
We are very pleased to have a very distinguished group of
law enforcement witnesses with us today. What I would like to
do is to introduce them as a group and then take their
statements in sequence and then have questions to the group in
general.
Nevada U.S. Attorney Gregory Brower. Greg Brower has been
the U.S. Attorney since December 1007. Before becoming U.S.
Attorney, Mr. Brower served as General Counsel to the
Government Printing Office and as the GPO's Inspector General.
Mr. Brower previously served at the U.S. Department of Justice
as legislative counsel in the Executive Office for U.S.
Attorneys. His prior public service also includes being twice
elected to the Nevada State Legislature and service in the U.S.
Navy as a surface warfare officer. Mr. Brower received a
bachelor's degree from the University of California, Berkeley,
and a law degree from George Washington University.
Utah U.S. Attorney Brett Tolman. Brett Tolman has been U.S.
Attorney for the District of Utah since 2006. Before that, he
worked for Senators Hatch and Specter on this Judiciary
Committee. We are pleased to welcome him back.
Mr. Tolman. Thank you.
Senator Whitehouse. He also served as an Assistant U.S.
Attorney in the District of Utah. Mr. Tolman clerked for U.S.
District Chief Judge Dee Benson from 1998 to 2000 and received
his law degree cum laude from Brigham Young University in 1998
and a B.A. from Brigham Young University in 1994.
Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard has been Arizona's
Attorney General since 2003. Before becoming Attorney General,
Mr. Goddard was elected mayor of Phoenix four times and was
president of the National League of Cities in 1989. Attorney
General Goddard also served as the Arizona State Director for
the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. Attorney
General Goddard received his B.A. in American history from
Harvard and his J.D. from Arizona State University. He served
an active-duty tour in the Navy and retired as a commander
after 27 years in our Naval Reserves.
Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott has been the Texas
Attorney General since 2002. Attorney General Abbott's career
in public service began in Houston where he served as a State
trial judge. In 1995, then-Governor George W. Bush appointed
Attorney General Abbott to the Texas Supreme Court, where he
served until becoming Attorney General. Mr. Abbott graduated
from Vanderbilt Law School and the University of Texas.
Again, we are very pleased to have so distinguished a panel
before us, and I would ask United States Attorney Brower to
begin with his statement.
STATEMENT OF GREGORY A. BROWER, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY,
DISTRICT OF NEVADA, LAS VEGAS, NEVADA
Mr. Brower. Thank you, Senator Whitehouse, members of the
Committee. Good morning. I am Greg Brower, U.S. Attorney--
Senator Whitehouse. Turn your microphone on.
Mr. Brower. Excuse me. We were just talking about the fact
that witnesses always forget to do that, and here I did it
myself.
Senator Whitehouse. There you go.
Mr. Brower. Let me start over. Senator Whitehouse, members
of the Committee, I am Greg Brower, U.S. Attorney, District of
Nevada. On behalf of the Department of Justice, I want to thank
the Committee and the Majority Leader for this hearing today.
My colleague from Utah, Brett Tolman, and I are very pleased to
appear before you today to provide the perspective of the
Department of Justice and Federal law enforcement in working
with issues arising from polygamist communities. My testimony
will provide an overview of the tools and resources available
to Federal law enforcement to address these issues. Mr. Tolman
will follow with a more detailed discussion regarding specific
efforts being made, primarily in his State and his district.
At the outset, let me emphasize what I am sure is obvious.
As Federal prosecutors, our oath is to support and defend the
Constitution. The very first right enshrined in the Bill of
Rights is the right to the free exercise of religion. The U.S.
Department of Justice does not target anyone for criminal
investigation or prosecution--whether individuals or groups--
based upon their religious beliefs.
Instead, the Department's mission is to target Federal
criminal conduct wherever it occurs, regardless of the
religious beliefs, if any, of the criminal. The seminal Supreme
Court case on the interplay between laws of general application
and the Free Exercise Clause is Employment Division of Oregon
v. Smith. In that 1990 decision, the Supreme Court rightly held
that when a law is of general application and not targeted at a
particular religious practice, the Free Exercise Clause is not
implicated, even if the incidental effect of the law is to
affect some people's practice of their religion. The issue of
polygamy illustrates this point. The practice is illegal in all
50 States, regardless of whether a defendant enters a plural
marriage for religious reasons or otherwise. And with respect
to the practice of polygamy itself, I should emphasize that it
is usually a matter of State criminal law, and not Federal law.
Over the history of our country, the laws defining and
defending the institution of marriage have been by design
within the province of the States. Polygamy is illegal in all
50 States because of the individual criminal codes of those 50
States, and not because of any Federal criminal provision.
While polygamy is a State crime, the Department embraces
partnerships with State and local law enforcement through
information sharing, coordination, and other types of
assistance, and will investigate and prosecute Federal
violations where found.
Thus, ultimately, the role of Federal law enforcement in
dealing with issues relating to polygamist communities is the
same role as in any other context--to investigate and prosecute
Federal crimes wherever they occur.
Numerous Federal laws are potentially implicated by the
conduct in which some members of polygamist communities may be
engaged, and Federal authorities stand ready to investigate and
prosecute as circumstances warrant. Title 26 tax crimes are
investigated by the IRS Criminal Investigations and are
prosecuted by U.S. Attorney's Offices and the Tax Division at
Justice. The FBI has responsibility for investigating a host of
other white-collar offenses, such as mail, wire, and financial
institution fraud, fraud involving Federal programs, false
claims cases, health care fraud, and computer crimes. The U.S.
Secret Service has broad authority to investigate identity
theft and credit card fraud. The U.S. Postal Inspection Service
investigates crimes involving the mails. The United States
Marshals Service has and will continue to aid these cases by
tracking and capturing fugitives as necessary.
The FBI and the ATF have broad authority to investigate
violent Federal crimes, including crimes involving weapons and
explosives. The FBI also has jurisdiction over Federal criminal
civil rights violations. Indeed, it is a felony to interfere
with another's free exercise of religion by force or threats of
force, under 18 U.S.C. Section 247. That section also covers
attacks on churches or other religious property. Finally,
Federal criminal law provides for substantial penalties for
arson and for threats communicated by mail, telephone, or
Internet.
In addition to the laws just noted, I should emphasize that
Federal criminal law affords very powerful tools to deal with
sexual predators of children. Title 18, U.S. Code, Section
2422(b), makes it a felony for a defendant to use the mail or a
facility of interstate or foreign commerce, such as telephone
lines or the Internet, to lure a child under age 18 to engage
in criminal sexual activity. Transporting a child across State
lines for the same purpose is also illegal under 18 U.S.C.
Section 2423(a).
Both crimes carry a 10-year mandatory minimum sentence, but
they are punishable up to life imprisonment. Even using the
Internet or other means of interstate communication to transmit
identifying information about a young child--for example, name,
address, telephone number, e-mail address--for sexual purposes
is against Federal law. That crime carries a potential 5-year
penalty.
The Department is deeply committed to investigating and
prosecuting crimes against children, working closely with State
and local prosecutors and law enforcement agencies to enhance
our efforts. To further this goal, in 2006 the Department
developed Project Safe Childhood. The strategic goal of Project
Safe Childhood is to maximize the number of leads generated and
investigated by Federal, State, and local law enforcement, and
then funnel those cases as appropriate to Federal prosecution,
where Federal nationwide investigative tools can be employed
and Federal felony mandatory minimum sentences can be sought.
Senator Whitehouse. Mr. Brower?
Mr. Brower. Yes, sir?
Senator Whitehouse. May I ask you to sum up your testimony
so that we can stay within our time guidelines. Your full
statement will be made a matter of record. but if you could
move to conclude, I would appreciate it because of our time
constraints.
Mr. Brower. Thank you, Senator.
In summary, to the extent that members of polygamist
communities are committing Federal crimes, whether white-collar
frauds, crimes against children, or other crimes, the
Department is committed to working with State and local law
enforcement authorities in the relevant jurisdictions to ensure
that those crimes are aggressively investigated and prosecuted.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Brower appears as a
submission for the record.]
Senator Whitehouse. Thank you very much.
United States Attorney Tolman?
STATEMENT OF BRETT TOLMAN, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY, DISTRICT OF
UTAH, SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH
Mr. Tolman. It is an honor to be here. I will say it is far
different being on this side of the Committee than it is behind
you and drafting the questions.
Senator Whitehouse. Wait until Senator Hatch starts asking
you questions. It is going to get worse.
Senator Hatch. I can hardly wait.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Tolman. Senator Whitehouse and distinguished members of
the Committee, I am Brett Tolman, the United States Attorney
for the District of Utah. The title of this hearing is ``Crimes
Associated with Polygamy: The Need for a Coordinated State and
Federal Response.'' I am here to testify that Utah has a proud
history of a coordinated State and Federal response. For years
now, my office and various agencies such as the FBI, DEA, IRS,
the Department of Health and Human Services, the Department of
Labor, and others have worked with State and local agencies to
investigate allegations that crimes such as sexual exploitation
of children, fraud, structuring financial transactions to avoid
Bank Secrecy Act reporting requirements, drug trafficking, and
violent crimes were being committed by members of various
polygamist groups in Utah. In fact, a large reason why several
States and even other countries have confronted the issues
surrounding polygamist communities is because of the great
investigative and prosecutive efforts in Utah.
The aggressive prosecutions by the Utah Attorney General's
Office, various county attorney offices, and the U.S.
Attorney's Offices have pushed some members of polygamist
groups from Utah to other States and countries, resulting in
Utah's interstate coordination efforts.
Let me now speak to how the existing coordinated efforts
have been successful. It is public knowledge that there are
ongoing Federal investigations involving potential Federal
criminal activity in polygamist communities. On April 10, 2008,
the FBI and the United States Attorney's Office for the
Northern District of Texas announced that a Federal search
warrant had been executed at the YFZ Ranch in Eldorado, Texas.
At that time, they also stated that the application and
affidavit were under seal and that no further comment could be
made because of the pending investigation.
I can assure the Committee that other Federal efforts are
ongoing, in my district and in others. Without going into the
details of non-public past or present investigations, such
efforts have involved the full cooperation, coordination, and
communication of multiple Federal, State, and local agencies,
including, but not limited to, the FBI in Utah, Nevada, and
Dallas, Texas, the Arizona Attorney General's Office, the Utah
Attorney General's Office, the United States Attorney's Offices
in Arizona, Utah, Nevada, and the Northern District of Texas,
county authorities from Mohave County, Arizona, and Washington
County, Utah, and other Federal agencies such as IRS Criminal
Investigations and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and
Explosives.
Just recently, on June 11, 2008, I personally met with many
high-level State and Federal law enforcement officials from
Utah, Arizona, Texas, and Nevada to discuss these issues.
United States Attorneys from throughout the Western region of
this country were present. The group agreed that the Federal,
State, and local prosecuting and investigating agencies have a
proven and effective working relationship, but that we can do a
better job of sharing information.
We shared information at this meeting and have continued to
do so since in a way that is atypical of any other group or
task force that I have been a part of. The group has been
communicating by e-mail, and a Special Interest Group on Law
Enforcement On-Line website and central data base for
information sharing have been created. We have already
experienced and expect to continue to experience great results
from these new avenues of communication.
Some have suggested creating a task force to deal
specifically with these polygamist issues. With respect to
crimes associated with polygamist groups, however, I believe
that there is already substantial communication and
coordination among Federal, State, and local offices, indeed,
just as much as there would be were a formal task force in
place. Moreover, although task forces are an effective
mechanism to combat many types of criminal conduct, they just
may not be a good fit in this particular context. Polygamist
communities are highly self-contained and insular, which makes
them difficult for law enforcement to infiltrate. Moreover,
whether it is due to loyalty, sincere religious belief, or
coercion, their members are frequently uncooperative with law
enforcement.
In large measure, when past investigations have stalled, it
has been a result of these witness issues. In this context, a
task force may be too blunt an instrument to accomplish an
effective investigation, and subtler, more covert methods may
be more profitably employed.
Specifically, my office and others have investigated in the
recent past the case of Warren Jeffs, the leader of a
polygamist sect in Utah.
Jeffs was charged by Utah with being an accomplice to rape,
for using his religious influence over his followers to coerce
a 14-year-old girl into marriage to her 19-year-old cousin.
Jeffs went on the run and was missing for 2 years. The United
States Attorney's Offices for the Districts of Utah and Arizona
brought Federal unlawful flight to avoid prosecution charges. A
Federal warrant was obtained.
Jeffs was ultimately placed on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted
Fugitives list, and after a nationwide manhunt, he was
eventually captured in Nevada and returned to face justice in
Utah. He was convicted and is serving two consecutive terms of
5 years to life. He still presently faces charges in Arizona
relating to the alleged marriages of underage girls. After he
faces State charges in Arizona, Jeffs will be returned to Utah,
where he will be prosecuted by the U.S. Attorney's for his
unlawful flight. And as the Committee knows, just recently--and
we have the Attorney General here from Texas--they recently
announced further charges against Mr. Jeffs and several others
relating to the exploitation of children.
Senator Whitehouse. Mr. Tolman, could you wrap up? The time
has expired.
Mr. Tolman. Yes. In summary, great efforts have been made.
We look forward to continuing our cooperation and coordination
with local, State, and Federal officials to make sure that we
eradicate criminal behavior that is occurring in these
communities.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Tolman appears as a
submission for the record.]
Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Mr. Tolman.
Attorney General Goddard, good to have you with us.
STATEMENT OF TERRY GODDARD, ATTORNEY GENERAL, STATE OF ARIZONA,
PHOENIX, ARIZONA
Mr. Goddard. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, distinguished members
of the Committee. It is a great pleasure to be here. My name is
Terry Goddard. I am the Attorney General of Arizona, and I
greatly appreciate the Committee's time and attention to this
issue. I have some extended remarks, which with your
permission, Mr. Chairman, I will submit for the record.
Senator Whitehouse. They will be made a part of the record.
Mr. Goddard. I will make every effort to summarize them
here today.
The investigation and prosecution of crimes in communities
controlled specifically by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-Day Saints, or the FLDS, present a unique set
of challenges that I applaud the Committee for looking at
today. These challenges illustrate the need for enhanced local-
Federal cooperation and additional resources. I want to thank
Senator Reid for his leadership on this issue and the proposed
legislation, which I first saw yesterday. But I would submit it
is exactly the kind of cooperation and support for not only law
enforcement but social service support agencies which has been
needed throughout the Western United States in dealing with
these issues.
At the outset, it probably should not be necessary, but I
would like to make two things clear. First, I am talking about
the FLDS, not the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints,
commonly known as ``the Mormon Church.'' Unfortunately, there
still are confusions occasionally, although that should not be
an issue before this Committee. Second, the focus of the work
done in my office in Arizona and in the office of Attorney
General Mark Shurtleff in Utah has focused on Hildale, Utah,
and Colorado City, Arizona. It is not about religion, not about
culture, and not about lifestyle. It is about protecting women
and children from crime, from domestic abuse and sexual
violence; combating fraud and public corruption; enforcing
civil rights laws; upholding peace officer standards; and
ensuring that the rule of law is applied.
For the past 5 years, my office has taken a systematic
approach to restoring the rule of law to a community that in
many respects has been operating outside the rule of law for
almost a century. I have been intent on not repeating the
heavy-handed mistakes of the past. Arizona badly executed a
police raid in 1953 known as the ``Short Creek raid'' that took
most of the children in the community into custody and made
them wards of the State. And it had three long-term negative
effects:
First, afterwards, governmental authorities were reluctant
to do anything, to pay any attention to the area of Short
Creek, soon renamed Colorado City, and Hildale in Utah.
Second, the residents of these communities became highly
suspicious of Government at all levels. We found that victims
of abuse feared the State more than their abuser.
And, third, the leaders of the FLDS Church used the first
two to increase their autocratic authority over their
followers.
In 2003, Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff and I formed
a partnership to undertake and coordinate civil and criminal
investigations and provide a safety net for the victims of
child abuse and domestic violence in Colorado City and Hildale.
These communities have an estimated 10,000 people ore more, and
they are geographically isolated and strictly segregated from
outside influences.
Over the past 5 years, we have expanded the partnership in
Arizona and Utah into a safety net that includes State and
local law enforcement as well as local service agencies,
advocacy groups, and members of the community. We have held
monthly safety net meetings and established a permanent
physical presence for law enforcement and social services in
Colorado City.
Now, outreach and support in these communities has been
facing unique obstacles. They are very remote. They are, as has
been noted already, highly centralized and thought is
controlled by the leaders. They have very strong traditions,
and they have a great suspicion of governmental agencies. So
overcoming some of this resistance was a big part of our agenda
over the past 5 years.
I am pleased to say that the safety net has provided
support to over 1,200 individuals, and the number seems to be
increasing every day as people come forward to report needs and
to report child abuse instances--something we saw almost none
of 5 years ago.
I would like to summarize a couple of very specific areas
where we think Federal assistance would be particularly useful.
As has been noted, the FLDS operates in two foreign
countries and many States in the Western United States. These
multi-State operations are uniquely susceptible to Federal
investigation and information sharing. The businesses operated
by this particular organization, by the FLDS, are beyond the
scope of many State and local law enforcement agencies, but are
uniquely susceptible to Federal investigation.
Second, we believe civil rights violations have been
occurring in these communities. In 2005, I addressed a letter
to the Department of Justice requesting help specifically in
the Marshals Office in Colorado City. We believe this
institution of the State, of the city of Colorado City, was, in
fact, being used to exile young men from the community, to
enforce the rules laid down by the FLDS, and in some cases to
actually throw individual families out of their houses. This
kind of deprivate of cv I believe is, again, outside of the
jurisdiction of individual States and uniquely within the
Federal prosecution ambit.
We have found extensive--and U.S. Attorney Tolman has
referred to the huge amount of information which has been
obtained, both in the Escalade that Warren Jeffs was found
riding in and in the recent seizures in Texas. We are anxious
to see that information, and any kind of sharing with Federal
authorities will be greatly appreciated. But it is a huge
volume of information, and the cataloguing and evaluation of it
well exceeds our local capacity. So we would appreciate help in
that regard.
Finally, it has been far too long that Warren Jeffs and his
FLDS predecessors, as well as leaders of some other polygamist
organizations, have ignored and violated the law. Utah and
Arizona are working to restore that rule of law in Colorado
City and Hildale and to aid victims of abuse. What has taken a
century to build will not change overnight, but step by step we
are making important changes. A great deal of work still lies
ahead of us, and it is enhanced local, State, and Federal
cooperation, and the additional resources promised in the
proposed legislation will make a big difference in
investigating and prosecuting crimes and preventing future
abuse in these communities.
I want to thank the Committee for their consideration and
the chance to be here today.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Goddard appears as a
submission for the record.]
Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Attorney General Goddard.
And now we turn to our final witness on this panel, the
Attorney General of Texas, Greg Abbott.
STATEMENT OF GREG ABBOTT, ATTORNEY GENERAL, STATE OF TEXAS,
AUSTIN, TEXAS
Mr. Abbott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and also thanks to all
the Committee members for convening this very important
hearing.
If I could at the outset explain, I can tell maybe there
was some question why I did not stand to take the oath. I am in
a wheelchair, which is why I did not stand. I was out jogging,
and a big tree fell on me one day, crushing vertebrae into my
spinal cord, leaving me paralyzed. Otherwise, I would have been
proud to stand.
But I want to appear here to reaffirm the benefits that can
be achieved by Federal and State cooperation and coordination
in criminal investigations and prosecutions of crimes committed
by members of the FLDS.
As the Committee is aware, my office is engaged in pending
prosecutions of certain FLDS members. Two days ago, a grand
jury in Schleicher County, Texas, returned seven indictments
against six suspects. All suspects are associated with the YFZ
compound near Eldorado, Texas.
Among the six suspects is Warren Jeffs, who is charged with
sexually assaulting a child, a first-degree felony.
Four additional suspects are charged with sexually
assaulting young girls under the age of 17. One of those
suspects is also charged with felony bigamy.
A separate suspect has been indicted on three counts of
failure to report child abuse.
The indictments issued on Tuesday are part of an ongoing
criminal investigation. This week's indictments reflect a
cooperative effort between the Texas Office of the Attorney
General's Office, the Texas Department of Public Safety, the
Texas Rangers, the 51st Judicial District Attorney's Office in
Texas, as well as the United States Attorney for the Northern
District of Texas and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. My
office has also maintained open lines of communication with the
Attorneys General Offices in Arizona and Utah.
We have seen firsthand the vital importance of
communication and cooperation among State and Federal
authorities.
The suspects in this case are part of an organization with
roots in many States and many countries. To state the obvious,
it is a big challenge for State authorities, acting alone, to
contain or prevent criminal activity that crosses multiple
States, and even national borders.
According to press reports, Warren Jeffs ordered that the
YFZ Ranch in Texas be purchased just one month after Arizona
authorities prosecuted an FLDS member for an unlawful sexual
relationship with a 16-year-old girl. This frames an important
issue for this Committee to consider. When one State enforces
its law, the FLDS leaders simply move their operations to
another State.
Recent press reports indicated that, after the joint
crackdown by Utah and Arizona, FLDS members began moving to
southern Nevada and, of course, to Texas.
This group moves seamlessly from State to State, location
to location, and has the infrastructure necessary to thwart law
enforcement. Even Warren Jeffs, who has achieved international
notoriety, managed to hide from authorities for over a year,
and he was on the FBI's Most Wanted list. This leads me to two
very important points:
First, if individuals are charged with crimes, and if those
individuals flee the jurisdiction by the time those charges are
filed, State authorities could benefit from help by the FBI,
the U.S. Marshals, and U.S. Attorneys across the country in
locating and arresting those individuals.
Second, and from a bigger-picture perspective, we have seen
that the FLDS is highly mobile and willing to move from one
location to the next in an apparent effort to avoid State
authorities. Thus, it is critical that Federal authorities
focus on the FLDS and devote the resources necessary to
prosecute criminal wrongdoing that is uncovered--whether the
evidence leads to Texas, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, or some other
place.
Although the alleged criminal conduct currently being
prosecuted by our office involves crimes that traditionally
fall within State authorities' purview, there are important
issues for Federal prosecutors to consider. Given the nature of
the FLDS, and the nature of the crimes that may have been
committed, there are a number of areas in which cooperation and
coordination could be particularly effective, and I will
outline these very briefly.
Consideration should be given to the full application of
Federal laws, such as the Mann Act, to prosecute crimes
committed against underage girls born or placed into the FLDS,
as part of the systematic victimization of young women within
the sect.
Consideration should also be given to the full application
of Federal laws to investigate potential white-collar crimes by
FLDS members and their leadership--activity that spans State
borders and which Federal law enforcement is experienced and
qualified to evaluate and prosecute.
There should also be cooperation and coordination among
State and Federal law enforcement on the collection, review,
evaluation, and sharing of evidence that has been gathered
throughout the States and Federal Government.
Cooperation and coordination are also needed to ensure that
if FLDS members are charged with crimes, Federal and State
resources will be dedicated to locating and arresting those
defendants.
And, finally, I will mention that cooperation and
coordination is warranted to assist the victims of crimes by
FLDS members, including those victims who have been subjected
to sexual or other forms of abuse.
These are just a few ideas for the Committee to consider.
This Committee and the Department of Justice can be assured
that the State of Texas will continue to work closely and
cooperatively with Federal authorities to hold accountable
those who have broken the law. I can also assure the Committee
that there has already been a good deal of cooperation and
coordination among State and Federal law enforcement officials
in Texas.
Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Abbott appears as a
submission for the record.]
Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Attorney General Abbott.
Once again, let me say what a privilege it is for this
Committee to have the law enforcement leaders of Federal and
State law enforcement from four separate States all here at the
table before us to discuss this issue. Having sat in those
seats myself, I am particularly interested in the questions of
coordination. In my time as United States Attorney, a great
deal of effort was given to coordinating the efforts of
different law enforcement agencies. Unfortunately, there was a
fair amount of stovepiping at the time, and to make sure that
everybody was operating, particularly when they were in the
same area, in tandem was a significant--I guess you would call
it air traffic control-type operation. And it strikes me here
that that is certainly merited. I have heard people mention tax
offenses, which the Internal Revenue Service would investigate;
mail fraud offenses, which Postal Inspectors would investigate;
interstate violent and civil rights crimes, which the FBI would
investigate; identity theft and credit card fraud, which the
Secret Service would investigate; if there are weapons offenses
related, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms would
investigate; and then, of course, there are statutory rape,
child molestation, assault, violent crime, and all sorts of
State-level criminal offenses that are involved. And there may
be other ways to do it, but in my experience, when you are
trying to organize something like this, the U.S. Attorney
either called the agencies together, established a task force
that spoke to each other, and everybody kept track of what
everybody was doing; or at a less aggressive level, designated
a point of contact within the U.S. Attorney's Office for all
activities related to that particular type of investigation so
that, A, the U.S. Attorney had somebody accountable in their
office to keep track of and, B, everybody in the office knew
what was going on and this person became sort of a de facto
coordinator for the agencies.
Do you have either set-up in your U.S. Attorney's Offices
with respect to this issue? Or how are you organizing it? And
when I say ``task force,'' I mean an invisible one that is in
the U.S. Attorney's Office coordinating and behind the scenes.
I do not mean a massive, as you say, blunt instrument of raid
jackets going out and doing things. We had very complex task
forces that threaded out one agent to try to infiltrate into a
gang, and then he would come back and report. And then we would
move another. It was done in a very covert way, but as a task
force coordinated at the management level.
Mr. Brower. Senator, if I might address that first, I can
tell you that in my 6 months on the job in Nevada, I have been
very impressed with the extent of State, Federal, and local
cooperation on a variety of fronts in my district; and in the
last couple of months that we have been discussing this issue,
I can tell you that I have been very impressed with the efforts
by those at this table and our respective offices and other
offices on coordinating on this particular issue.
I have tasked in my district my criminal chief to be the
point of contact. Mr. Tolman mentioned a meeting that took
place in my office a couple of months ago. Discussions have
followed, cooperation has followed, and I think we are off to a
good start.
Mr. Tolman. Senator, in my office there is, as you say, an
invisible task force, and perhaps that is an appropriate
analogy. My concern has always been that the announcement, the
mere announcement of a task force dedicated solely to target
one individual group can often defeat the very purpose that you
are establishing the task force. You give notice to those
individuals that you are targeting them. And we have seen
already--
Senator Whitehouse. I am afraid today's hearing may blow
that.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Tolman. And we have seen already with the announcement
withdrawal of many that have been willing to come outside of
those communities and to work with us. And we hope that it is
not jeopardized because, as you know, the only way to get to
some of the criminal behavior of these groups is true
infiltrating the group or turning an informant into a
cooperating witness. And I have four and will have a fifth
person that is at the ready in my office to tackle certain
crimes and investigative leads that may occur in these
polygamous communities. I have one individual that is full-time
managing the communication and coordination of this issue.
Senator Whitehouse. And to the Attorneys General, can you
let the Committee know, how is this being coordinated either
within the National Association of Attorneys General or, if it
is a more regional issue, within CWAG, the Western Attorneys
General organization?
Mr. Goddard. Mr. Chairman, members of the Committee, if I
could start on that and defer then to Attorney General Abbott.
As he said in his remarks--and I would have emphasized with
additional time--this is a conspiracy, this is an organized
crime, as has been referred to, which has profited from hiding
behind borders. They have used jurisdictional barriers to their
great advantage. There used to be a joke that the large houses
in Colorado City and Hildale were actually on rails, and that
if it got hot in Utah, they could move to Arizona; and if it
got hotter in Arizona, literally, legally speaking, they could
move it back to Utah.
That is not true, I hasten to say; they are on solid
foundations. But, nonetheless, the jurisdictional ability to
slip away when it was particularly difficult in one State, to
find another that was not paying attention, unfortunately has
been a characteristic of this criminal activity.
In addition, in the States, neither Attorney General Abbott
nor I have original jurisdiction on the crimes that are being
charged. That is our county attorneys, and I want to give great
credit to Matt Smith, the County Attorney in Mohave County,
Arizona, who has been the prosecuting agent. He turned around
years of inattention in his term as the County Attorney there
and has made a huge difference in bringing, I believe, eight
cases now against people for sexual abuse of minors.
Senator Whitehouse. Since my time is running out, may I ask
if Attorney General Abbott would like to add something.
Mr. Goddard. So we need better coordination, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Whitehouse. Thank you.
Mr. Abbott. I will tell you that we have benefited from the
expertise and experience of both the Attorney General for
Arizona and the Attorney General for Utah as we have gone about
the process of the investigation and now the prosecution of
these crimes in Texas. I also want to add, though, that we have
benefited from ongoing cooperation and coordination with the
U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Texas.
Senator Whitehouse. Very good. At this point I would be
honored to recognize the very distinguished Senator from Utah,
Orrin Hatch, who has served with distinction as the Chairman of
this Committee. So I am sort of rather new in this chair
compared to the vast experience that he brings to it. So it is
a great honor to have him have the chance to inquire. Senator
Hatch.
Senator Hatch. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I think
you are doing a very good job as usual. You are very bright,
and you have vast experience in these areas.
Let me start with you, Mr. Tolman. In your statement you
said that a Federal task force that deals specifically with
polygamous groups ``may be too blunt an instrument to
accomplish an effective investigation, and subtler and more
covert methods may be more profitably employed.''
Just two questions. What do you mean by ``too blunt an
instrument''? And could you please explain what other methods
might be effective in dealing with these very serious issues?
Mr. Tolman. We had established task forces previously. In
2003 and 2005, attempts were made to organize somewhat of a
formal task force. They are cumbersome. When attempting to
target a specific group where you need informants on the inside
or you need an ability to infiltrate the group, it is something
that unless you have been to these cities and observed the
citizens of these particularly polygamous groups, it is
remarkable. If an outsider were to drive through, they are
immediately recognized by all that are residents in this area.
They know who are within their community and who are without.
Because of that, it is a great challenge to publicly target a
specific group.
What is needed is constant communication and sharing of
evidence and information, not only now within the State that
they reside but now in multiple States and with international
authorities. I am proud to say, Senator, that we now have more
communication and information sharing in this area than I have
seen in any of the successful task forces that are out there
presently.
Senator Hatch. Well, thank you. We are so pleased to have
all of you here. It means a lot to us to help us understand
these things better.
I do not countenance criminal activity in any way, and I
know you do not either. But let me ask you this, Mr. Brower: I
greatly appreciate the part of your testimony where you state,
``The United States Department of Justice does not target
anyone for criminal investigation or prosecution--whether
individuals or groups--based upon their religious beliefs.''
Now, you further stated that, ``The Department's mission is to
target Federal criminal conduct wherever it occurs...''
Now, I think it is vitally important that these statements
be highlighted. Are you aware of any current investigations in
which religious organizations have been targeted simply based
on their religious beliefs?
Mr. Brower. I am not, Senator. That is an excellent
question, of course, and as I mentioned in my statement, the
Department simply does not engage in such targeting.
Senator Hatch. Well, thank you.
Mr. Brower. It is just not important to the Department
whether a criminal wrongdoer has a religious affiliation or
not. It is just not relevant.
Senator Hatch. Thank you.
Mr. Tolman, just a short answer on this if you can. There
appears to be a perception by some that certain Western States
are simply ignoring possible criminal violations occurring in
polygamous groups. I am certainly aware that many States,
including Utah, fairly pursue the appropriate investigations of
criminal activity.
Now, isn't it accurate that law enforcement entities in
Utah and other States have vigorously investigated credible
accusations related to this topic?
Mr. Tolman. Senator, let me, if I may, describe to you what
investigations have been--what leads have been followed upon
and what investigations have been conducted just by the FBI and
my office.
Senator Hatch. If you could do it quickly, I would
appreciate it.
Mr. Tolman. Since 2004, we have investigated and followed
up leads involving racketeering charges, illegal wiretaps, and
possible civil rights violations by the Hildale/Colorado City
marshals; trafficking in underage girls for the purposes of
forced arranged marriage to older men or otherwise known as the
Mann Act violations; unlawful flight to avoid prosecution;
stockpiling of illegal weapons and explosives, including
machine guns and .50-caliber sniper rifles. We investigated
allegations of the murders of infant children and improper
disposal of their remains; various forms of Government program
fraud, including Medicaid and food stamp program fraud, as well
as false claims for reimbursement for child care expenses. We
have investigated and worked with partners for violations of
child labor laws. We have investigated sexual misconduct by
Warren Jeffs and other leads of the FLDS sect, including
illegal sexual acts perpetrated against children. We have
investigated tax fraud. The IRS has investigated a number of
other types of fraud involving tax schemes, including business
fraud and individual fraud. And we have investigated corporate
and business fraud allegations in the southern part of Utah.
That is just since 2004. It is to me one of the areas in
which we work most diligently to followup on these leads. But,
last, Senator, may I add that it is significant and important
that we remember that probable cause must be established before
we can present any investigative leads to the grand jury to
seek charges. And our finding is that often without cooperating
witnesses or someone from the inside, probable cause is
difficult to maintain, and I am reluctant to act without that
standard of the Constitution met.
Senator Hatch. Well, thank you. The Chairman has graciously
allotted me a little more time to ask a couple of other
questions since my State has been involved to a degree.
Mr. Goddard, you indicated--and I appreciate your
testimony. I appreciate the work that you have done and that
you are doing in Arizona. But you stated that the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, commonly nicknamed ``the
Mormon Church,'' should not be confused with the FLDS. Could
you explain what that means?
Mr. Goddard. Mr. Chairman, Senator Hatch, I would be
delighted. And the confusion has persisted in the media, and I
think it is highly unfortunate.
Senator Hatch. It is very offensive to me and to Senator
Reid and every one of us who belong to the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Mr. Goddard. Obviously, the break that took place at the
beginning of the last century, in the 1900s, when polygamy was
declared a felony crime in Utah, a small splinter group, FLDS
and some others, split off. They have distinctly different
leadership, different beliefs. And I just want to be absolutely
clear that there should be no confusion between this small
sect--actually, one of the largest sects in the United States,
but small compared to other religions--and the Mormon Church.
And I hate to say the confusion of names has sometimes led
media, in particular, to get these two organizations mixed up.
That is something that is greatly to be regretted.
The FLDS nomenclature was actually determined by a lawyer
to create some kind of uniqueness for the sect led by Warren
Jeffs. It was not chosen by them, but that history has caused
some bad confusion.
Senator, could I talk just for one second about the
coordination?
Senator Hatch. Sure.
Mr. Goddard. I believe I speak for your Attorney General,
Mark Shurtleff, as well as myself to say that we have pled for
the kind of the Federal cooperation that we are now beginning
to see in our States. It has taken a while coming, and I do
appreciate the meeting that was recently held in Las Vegas
where 50 local and State and Federal law enforcement officers
got together, shared information, and talked about where we can
go next to coordinate and cooperate. That is great progress.
But like any investigation and ultimately, we hope, or believe,
prosecution, of this size, it is going to need a captain. It is
going to need some kind of coordination to make sure that
everybody is on the same page and that they come back to these
issues each day.
As I said, the FLDS has thrived in isolation, and they have
used borders to their great benefit. And unless we can have the
kind of overall coordination in the region and across national
borders as well, it is going to be difficult to pursue these
criminal activities to the end. And I believe that is what this
hearing is all about. And I hope the Senate will take very
seriously the request that I support--and I know Attorney
General Shurtleff solemnly supports--the idea of a task force,
a strike force, a coordinating entity in the Department of
Justice that can help us overcome the isolation and the use of
barriers, jurisdictional barriers, to the benefit of criminal
activity.
Senator Hatch. Well, thank you.
Mr. Tolman, do you agree with Mr. Goddard that the
worldwide Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints should be
completely delineated as separate from the FLDS?
Mr. Tolman. Education is ongoing and a challenge with
respect to this issue, and one of the biggest, I think, hurdles
comes at the beginning, and that is, who exactly is this group
and what do they stand for. And the fact that they are separate
and distinct, that the LDS Church, otherwise known as the
Mormons, since 1900 have kicked out any of its members who have
practiced polygamy and has indicated that their membership is
to strictly adhere to the law. That is a big distinction and an
area of confusion. I agree with the Attorney General that it is
unfortunate. But it should be noted that we receive great
cooperation in Utah by the membership of the LDS Church who
hope that this practice is eradicated and the damaging effect
that it has on the children especially, and the women in this
community, are considerations that are at the forefront of
their mind and in our mind.
Senator Hatch. Mr. Abbott, I am sorry I did not have any
questions for you. I do have some, but I think I have taken
enough time. But I appreciate the difficulty of your State and
some of the problems that have existed. And I am just very
impressed with you and your testimony here today.
Mr. Goddard. Thank you.
Senator Hatch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Whitehouse. I am now pleased to call on the
distinguished Senator from Maryland, Senator Ben Cardin.
Senator Cardin. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank you
very much for holding this hearing, and I thank Senator Hatch
for his leadership in this area and so many different areas
over the years. And I certainly concur completely with your
comment about the need to make it clear that FLDS and similar
groups are in no way related to the Church of Latter-Day Saints
and legitimate church groups around the country. I thank you
for making that distinction.
Senator Hatch. Well, thank you. I appreciate your comments.
Senator Cardin. On the next panel, there are two witnesses
that will give firsthand accounts of what it was like living in
FLDS and their personal experiences and those of their
families. And I must tell you, I first want to thank you all
because I know that you are dedicated to doing everything you
can to protect families in our country and to make sure our
laws are adhered to and using the resources the best you can to
make sure that those that are engaged in criminal conduct are
brought to justice.
But I must tell you, as I read the testimony of the
witnesses in the next panel and read their experiences--I chair
the Helsinki Commission on the Senate side where we look at
international human rights violations, and what happened here,
what is happening here in this country is as bad as anything I
have seen anywhere in the world on children and families that
have been denied basic human rights because of the activities
of those involved in these polygamous colonies.
It is difficult to understand how this can occur in the
United States and has occurred for such a long period of time.
One of the witnesses will talk about her experiences with local
officials, how--and let me just quote. When someone would
complain of being abused, a woman would complain, they would
say you ``are married to a good man'' and if she was obedient,
``there would not be any problems,'' referring to the local
police returning a woman back to her husband, saying, you know,
``Be obedient.''
She then goes on to say that women could not get driver's
licenses, so, therefore, they could not drive outside of their
own community. They could drive in their own community because
the local police would not bother them. And it goes on to talk
more and more about the collusion of local officials.
So I really want to ask whether as part of your
investigation you are looking at the activities of those who
have sworn to uphold our law and whether they have violated
their oath, violated statutes in allowing those who needed
protection being denied the opportunity to get the type of
services that should have been provided, and whether these
local officials are really very complicit in the illegal
activities of these polygamous groups.
Mr. Tolman. Senator, if I might, that is a constant stream
of allegations in the history of dealing with this issue, that
the U.S. Attorney's Office in Utah, speaking just for my
office, that we have dealt with. We receive several allegations
each year of corruption, public corruption in the police force
and those that hold community leadership positions in that
community.
We have reached dead ends on so many of the investigations
that great discouragement has occurred. But I will tell you,
with the apprehension of Warren Jeffs, some of the evidence
that has been seized both in Utah and in Texas, we are more
hopeful than we have been in previous time that we may be able
to establish the evidence necessary to present that to a
Federal grand jury.
Senator Cardin. I think that is very important--and I will
let you all have a chance, please.
Mr. Abbott. If I could add, you are actually highlighting
one of the big challenges. A concern obviously may exist with
regard to corruption, but you need to understand the broader
concept of how FLDS goes about their organization network.
When they came to Texas, they picked a county that was so
sparsely populated, the FLDS sect would be able to step in and
perhaps gain control of the governmental apparatus in a way
that they could keep away from any kind of--or suppress any
kind of law enforcement effort. There are less than 700 people
who voted in Schleicher County, Texas, which is the county
where FLDS set up their sect. We believe that FLDS set up their
sect in Schleicher County, Texas, understanding that their
population alone may be able to overtake the voting population
in the county in a way where they would be able to control the
local law enforcement agencies in a way where they could evade
any kind of prosecutorial effort.
Let me be very clear about one thing. I know you want to
say something, but I want to be clear. We have seen no evidence
whatsoever concerning the local officials in the State of Texas
about any kind of illegal conduct by those local officials or
anything improper, but we do see this pattern of organization
by FLDS in a way which way they try to set up their operations
to evade governmental prosecution.
Senator Cardin. I will give you a chance to comment.
Mr. Goddard. Mr. Chairman, Senator Cardin, one of the main
reasons I am here to plead for additional Federal support is
because of civil rights violations perpetrated by officials.
Between Attorney General Shurtleff and myself and the efforts
of the local law enforcement certifying community, we have de-
certified six town marshals in Colorado City and Hildale. But I
do not believe that is enough. De-certification is a ponderous
process. It usually involves, as U.S. Attorney Tolman has said,
a proof of adherence to something other than the law and
Constitution. And so we, for instance, have found documentary
evidence in correspondence with Warren Jeffs where members of
the Marshal's staff said, ``We will follow you, not the law,
not the judges.'' We have asked the marshals to serve warrants,
and they have sat there while fugitives escaped in their
observation. So these people were not following their sworn
duty. We have removed six of them, but others who are also
members of the FLDS have come in their place.
This is an institutional problem, and the Justice
Department in other communities--I believe Detroit is one
example--have gone in and found systematic civil rights
violations and have taken over their department, found that it
was unable to perform its sworn duties. I would submit--and
this was my request 3 years ago--that the Justice Department
needs to take a hard look at institutional civil rights
violations with a possible thought of taking over a
receivership-type operation, because the marshals as an
institution are having a very hard time following the law.
Senator Cardin. I would just urge us to learn from how we
dealt with the civil rights issues and where we knew the local
officials were very much involved in our strategy in trying to
deal with the protection of communities and the need for
Federal involvement. I see a similarity here.
Just a final point I would make. In the testimony, it was
brought out about this group could easily be classified as a
hate group, a hate crimes group, because of what they are
teaching young children. And I think it really does cry out for
us to be very comprehensive as to how we go forward. And it
would be, I think, a clear signal to see criminal charges
brought against those who have violated the criminal statutes
that are elected--or who are public officials as a clear signal
that this cannot be tolerated in this country.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Whitehouse. I will conclude this panel by once
again thanking the witnesses. You bring great distinction to
this Committee with your presence, and I hope you find that the
hearing has been helpful in terms of animating the spirit of
cooperation that is necessary to prosecute these criminal
offenses. If we can be further helpful, please do not hesitate
to call on us, and the panel is excused.
Senator Whitehouse. I will call up our final panel.
Would you all please raise your right hands? Do you affirm
that the testimony you are about to give before the Committee
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?
Mr. Singular. I do.
Mr. Fischer. I do.
Ms. Jessop. I do.
Senator Whitehouse. Please be seated, and I welcome you to
this Committee. I know that this is a difficult and very
personal subject, and I have to say you have exhibited very
great courage and character in being here today, and I
appreciate it very much.
Why don't we just go across, beginning with Mr. Stephen
Singular.
STATEMENT OF STEPHEN SINGULAR, DENVER, COLORADO
Mr. Singular. Thank you, members of the Committee.
I am an investigative journalist and the author of 19
nonfiction books. Since 1985, I have been writing about that
line where religion crosses over into criminal behavior. In
early 2006, my wife, Joyce, suggested that I look into the
story of Warren Jeffs and the FLDS because she believed that
women in particular would be interested in this story. She was
right, and this is a significant point.
Historically, societies can be measured by how they treat
women and children.
That spring, I began traveling to Colorado City, Arizona,
interviewing townspeople, ex-church members, and law
enforcement. In 1953, Arizona had raided this community to root
out the FLDS polygamous lifestyle and had failed both legally
and in terms of public opinion. Fifty years later, the State
was employing criminal investigation techniques to target
specific individuals who were breaking the law, and they were
having success. Both Arizona and Utah were building a new
approach to tackling what many have called religious terrorism.
One victory came with the capture of fugitive Warren Jeffs,
the prophet or leader of the FLDS. In September 2007, he was
convicted on two counts of accomplice to rape for forcing a 14-
year-old girl to marry her first cousin.
Back in the 1970s, Jeffs was the principal of the FLDS-run
Alta Academy, just outside Salt Lake City, and students there
later described how he had abused them emotionally and
physically. His nephew, Brent Jeffs, eventually sued Warren and
two of his brothers, alleging that when Brent was five, they
had repeatedly sodomized him in a bathroom in the school
basement. Brent's brother, Clayne, another victim of these
attacks, committed suicide. In 2004, when Brent filed a lawsuit
against the prophet, Jeffs responded to this legal action the
same way he had to the American Government and to our criminal
justice system: He had ignored them. As the FLDS prophet, he
has also ignored:
No. 1, the child labor laws of Arizona, Utah, and Nevada.
Young FLDS boys were sent off to work in the church's
construction companies, and because they were hard-working and
unpaid, the sect could underbid the competition and generate
both private and Government business. One FLDS-run company, New
Era Manufacturing, has a Department of Defense contract for
aircraft wheel and brake manufacturing worth $1.2 million. JNJ
Engineering has an $11.3 million deal with the Las Vegas Valley
Water District. A third FLDS company, Paragon Contractors
Corporation, has been fined more than $10,000 by the U.S.
Department of Labor for employing 12- to 15-year-old boys and
not paying them.
No. 2, Jeffs ignored the Mann Act, which makes it illegal
for minors to cross State lines for sexual purposes. As the
prophet, he routinely commanded men to marry women and teenage
girls in secret ceremonies in Caliente, Nevada, across the
border from the FLDS home base in the twin towns of Hildale,
Utah, and Colorado City, Arizona.
No. 3, Jeffs ignored the laws against bigamy and underage
marriage in Arizona and Utah, selecting the men who would
receive new brides and joining them in ``spiritual marriages.''
These ``plural wives'' with dependent children then became
eligible for welfare payments--and welfare fraud. Colorado City
has received eight times the welfare assistance of comparably
sized towns in the area. Despite violating these laws, Colorado
City has been awarded $1.9 million from the U.S. Department of
Housing and Urban Development to pave the streets and improve
the fire department and water system; more than $12 million a
year from Arizona in health insurance premiums for the poor;
and a $2.8 million airport from Washington, D.C. The FLDS
openly despises the American Government while taking its money,
a tactic they call ``bleeding the beast.''
No. 4, Jeffs ignored the fate of hundreds of teenage males
in his community--known as ``Lost Boys''--after they rebelled
against forced child labor and his other harsh rules. He tossed
them out of Colorado City and Hildale by the hundreds, leaving
them to fend for themselves on the streets of St. George, Utah,
Salt Lake City, and Las Vegas. Some of the young men broke laws
and were arrested, burdening local police departments and
publicly funded social services.
No. 5, Jeffs ignored outside law enforcement because the
border towns' police force was made up of FLDS members utterly
loyal to their prophet. After Jeffs had gone underground to
avoid arrest, Colorado City Police Chief Fred Barlow wrote him
the following letter: ``Dear Uncle Warren, I would first like
to acknowledge you as the one man that was and is called of God
to stand at the head of his priesthood and the Kingdom of God
on the earth in this day and time. I rejoice in the peace that
comes over me when I follow the directives that you have sent
to me through Uncle William Timpson...I am praying for you to
be protected and yearn to be with you again...And I know that
you have the right to rule in all aspects of my life...''
No. 6, Jeffs ignored the genetic disorders caused by the
sect's inbreeding. In Colorado City and Hildale, Phoenix
pediatric neurologist Dr. Theodore Tarby uncovered the largest
occurrence in the world of a rare disease called Fumarese
Deficiency, which produces overly large heads, misshapen
brains, deformities, seizures, and even death. The severe
condition was one more drain on public moneys needed for
medical care.
No. 7, following his arrest, Jeffs and his lawyers
successfully fought efforts to get at FLDS financial records,
stored on computers in the vehicle in which the prophet had
been traveling. No complete picture exists of the FLDS income
streams that supported Jeffs' lavish fugitive lifestyle, paid
his colossal legal bills or other vast expenses. In 2003, the
FLDS bought the Texas ranch for about $700,000. Today it has an
assessed value of $20.5 million. Where did all the funds come
from for these improvements, and for other purchases of land in
South Dakota and more recently in Colorado? Has money been
laundered or taxes evaded?
Until the FLDS is thoroughly investigated by those with
subpoena power, the full extent of the sect's sexual abuse,
forced marriage, underage marriage, and financial schemes will
remain unknown. A nationwide network now exists of people who
have escaped the FLDS and understand its workings from the
inside out. They have spent years trying to get law enforcement
to investigate the sect more fully, are willing to testify
against Jeffs and his church, and they would welcome Federal
action. The FLDS has become both a national phenomenon and a
national problem--creating generations of victims spread across
the Southwest. None of this is about religious freedom or
faith, and FLDS members should not be treated any differently
from any other American citizen. This is about uncovering and
prosecuting individual criminal behavior by those who have
violated State and Federal laws, which is the best way to stop
those who terrorize in the name of God.
I respectfully ask you to consider these words and warnings
from someone who has spent more than 2 years investigating this
sect.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Singular appears as a
submission for the record.]
Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Mr. Singular.
Our next witness is Dr. Dan Fischer, who was the first-born
of 36 children in an FLDS family in Salt Lake City. He
eventually left the community and started Ultradent Products,
Incorporated, a dental products company. Dr. Fischer also
started the Diversity Foundation, which, among other things,
provides shelter and counseling to hundreds of teens expelled
from polygamous enclaves, known as ``Lost Boys.'' To quote Utah
Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, ``Dr. Fischer is a remarkable
man. He has done more for the Lost Boys than everyone else
combined.''
Dr. Fischer, we are proud to have you with us.
STATEMENT OF DAN FISCHER, SANDY, UTAH
Mr. Fischer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the
Committee. Thank you for inviting me here today.
As was mentioned, I was born in this society. My father had
three wives. I am or at least was the oldest of 36 children.
I left the FLDS 12 years ago. I have witnessed for 50 years
the pivotal changes that brought FLDS to what they are today.
I am a co-founder with Micha Barach of the Diversity
Foundation. Over the last 4 years, the foundation has been
significantly engaged in helping about 230 expelled FLDS young
people, most of them male.
When I travel across America and to international
destinations, should the subject of FLDS and polygamy arise,
the first expression is disbelief. How could this be occurring
in America and in the 21st century?
Reality: The problems caused by the FLDS leadership are
unacceptable whether they were a polygamous or monogamous
society. Too often wrongful actions occur under the smoke
screen of polygamy or religious freedom. Unfortunately, FLDS
polygamy has degenerated to a cult that is far from benign.
It would be a mistake to assume that FLDS people are not
intelligent and/or less than actively engaged in life. In fact,
many FLDS are intelligent and hard-working. Many are very
proficient with modern technology, even sophisticated
surveillance and the like. For example, in 2005, the former
special investigator for the Utah Attorney General's office,
Ron Barton, shared with me that approximately $600,000 had been
granted to the FLDS Colorado City police by the Federal
Government under the provisions of the new Homeland Security
program to attain sophisticated surveillance equipment. There
is good reason to believe they have learned to use it for
multiple purposes.
The FLDS feel that they are a suppressed and persecuted
people. They have banded together in a virtual underground way
characteristic with what occurs when leadership of any society
takes total control of both spiritual and temporal life. Their
prophet is as their God. Whatever he says takes precedent over
any previous scripture of any previous century. It can also
take precedent over the laws of the United States.
Without question, FLDS members will sacrifice self, family,
and children if directed by their leader. Their salvation and
exaltation, as taught by their prophet, is dependent on them
obeying totally what their prophet requests no matter what.
Who one is married to and when--including underage
marriage--is totally under the control of FLDS leadership. If a
young woman refuses to marry a man the prophet tells her to,
she comes under extreme pressure. And if she chooses someone on
her own, she may be branded with, in essence, the ``scarlet
letter.'' If a young man, on the other hand, shows any interest
in a girl, he is ``kicked out of town.'' Regardless the reason
a boy is expelled, the directive falls under the control of the
leadership.
In more recent years, the FLDS have moved to extreme
tactics to ``bleed the beast,'' namely, the U.S. Government.
Some men and businesses will even take out bankruptcy so as to
keep more moneys funneled toward the benefit of the leadership.
Warren Jeffs has been known to recommend the book ``The
Third Reich.'' Warren has had objectionable school books
destroyed. Not unlike the environment in Nazi Germany, Jeffs
encourages young people to tell on the wrongs of their parents,
siblings, and friends. He eliminated the possibility of public
education for them in 1998. Immediately, over 1,200 children
lost a quality education. You can multiply the number affected
by 2 to 3 times after a 10-year period.
Probably one of the greatest atrocities Warren Jeffs has
brought upon the FLDS has been the decimation of families.
Since around 1998, about 250 married men of all ages and some
with multiple wives, children, and grandchildren have been
expelled. Their wives will not object. They have been taught
even by their own husband for years that obedience to the
prophet must supersede even their love or devotion to him. Many
of these wives and married children are instructed to change
their last names to that of the new father. This destroys a
family, a heritage, a lineage, and the basic glue that holds a
society together. This plus being cutoff from family and
community often contributes to much of the post-traumatic
syndrome issues that we deal with working with the Lost Boys.
In 1998, my family was destroyed by Jeffs. If you find
another 2 or 3 minutes in this program, I will share with you
the events as they transpired. It is a chilling story. It
happened when I was 50 years old. I had nightmares for a year.
I still have nightmares.
The most tragic atrocity caused by the current FLDS
leadership relates to children. I have often said: ``Keep your
eye on the ball and the ball is the children.'' We know what
can occur in the mind of a young child when they are involved
in even a typical divorce in which there is a presiding judge
who has the duty of determining what is in the best interest of
the child. Who looks out for the children when FLDS families
are destroyed on the order of Jeffs?
Imagine the horror and terror that must occur in their
tender minds when they wake up one day to the realization that
their father is no longer their father; that he will not be
hugging them, talking to him, or even interacting with them
ever again. And then imagine what must be going through their
young minds as they discover their mother is married within
days to another man who is then kissing and making babies with
her. Imagine the scarring that will continue in that young mind
for a lifetime.
The instant and spontaneous mandate of divorce and
remarriage is just one example affecting lives of families and
individuals when due process of law can be circumvented.
We believe this atrocity has harmed in excess of 1,000
American children. For some this has occurred multiple times
with them drug ``family'' to ``family'' and potentially spread
over multiple States. I believe this ongoing atrocity has and
will continue to increase the likelihood of additional child
abuse of multiple dimensions. One of our esteemed Senators,
Hubert Humphrey, said something to the effect: You can measure
the quality of a society by the level of importance they put on
protecting their most vulnerable citizens. No Americans are
more vulnerable and more precious than our children.
The Diversity Foundation was founded about 10 years ago. It
was founded for the purpose of furthering a better
understanding with America's youth of the value of diverse
races, religions, and backgrounds. For the last 4 years it has
been substantially engaged in helping young men who have been
expelled or left the FLDS society. This weaning of the flock of
males continues even though the boys may try to return home,
and even when a court order attempts to send them home. This is
the case in spite of many prominent FLDS claiming there are no
Lost Boys, but only rebellious boys as found in other
societies. Included in my submission are short audio clips of
Jeffs teaching young people, grades 5 to 8, how and for whom
the prophet decides to ``kick out of town.'' Listening to it
brings another dimension to the problem.
Diversity's greatest expenditures with the castaway young
men are for education and psychological counseling. Imagine the
challenge that exists for a 13-year-old who must make it on his
own. Imagine the challenge that occurs for a 20-year-old who
can neither read nor write or does not even know multiplication
tables--someone who was kept out of school to work in heavy
construction at a very young age, their earnings going to
family or FLDS leadership. Tragically, some of these young boys
have even died in accidents on constructionsites.
In a cloistered polygamous society, simple math and biology
tells us some boys must either become bachelors for life or
leave. More recently, a few young girls have come out. Counter
to Jeffs's view of boys as expendable, FLDS characteristically
fight hard to keep their girls. Multiple years of expelling
free spirits plus downgrading and preventing education
ultimately rapes a society. Hitler and Stalin killed their self
thinkers and intellectuals. Jeffs prevents or expels them.
I value our religious freedoms. However, claims of freedom
of religion should not be allowed to blind us to the many
illegal and unconscionable activities of FLDS leadership. I
invite Congress to take appropriate measures to protect all
innocent parties, but especially children. As was once said,
``Doing the right thing is not always easy but it is always the
right thing.''
Thank you,
[The prepared statement of Mr. Fischer appears as a
submission for the record.]
Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Dr. Fischer.
Our next witness is Carolyn Jessop. Carolyn Jessop was born
into a polygamous family. When she was 18, Ms. Jessop was
forced to marry a 50-year-old man. She was his fourth wife.
Over the course of 15 years, Ms. Jessop had eight children and
lived with her husband and his wives in Colorado City, Arizona.
Early one morning, in the spring of 2003, Ms. Jessop packed her
eight children into a van and escaped from Merril and the
polygamous community. They fled to Salt Lake City, and in 2007,
Ms. Jessop co-authored a book, ``Escape,'' about her life in
the polygamous community and her escape from the community. We
welcome her here to the Committee.
Ms. Jessop?
STATEMENT OF CAROLYN JESSOP, WEST JORDAN, UTAH
Ms. Jessop. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the
Judiciary Committee. It is both a privilege and an honor for me
to be here today. I am here today to inform this panel about my
firsthand experiences of the systematic abuse and the disregard
for the law within the FLDS which leads to the isolation of its
most vulnerable individuals within any community--women and
children, who live without the protection of laws that most
Americans take for granted.
In my experience in Colorado City, Arizona, the mayor, many
city officials, the chief of police, and every police officer
were all members of the FLDS and were essentially hand-picked
by church leaders.
If a woman was beaten by her husband and called the police,
she was typically told by the police officer that she was
``married to a good man,'' and if she were obedient, ``there
would not be any problems.'' The police would not interfere
with their religious teachings. This gave a man the right to
discipline his household.
FLDS women were expected to drive unlicensed, unregistered,
uninsured cars around the community. I was never once pulled
over by a local police officer for this infraction. This meant
that I had transportation within the community, but I could not
drive beyond its borders without being stopped.
I would like to just insert here that the day I left to
escape with my children, I drove out of that community in an
unlicensed, uninsured vehicle. If Merril Jessop would have
called the police, that is the very thing. They would have
pulled me over and prevented my escape, and I would have been
charged for that.
The night I escaped with my children, I knew I could not go
to the local police for protection because they would be the
first men that Merril would call to hunt me down. The result of
this collusion between the FLDS and police is that there is
nowhere to turn for a woman who is seeking refuge from an
abusive situation.
Boys and girls, often as young as 12, are required to leave
school and work for the FLDS businesses, which were often
construction firms. It is not uncommon for these children to be
required to be on the work site by 6 a.m. or 7 a.m. in the
morning and work until dark, which could be as late as 9 p.m.
in the summer.
My oldest son Arthur was one of these children. He was 12
when he was pulled out of religious school, the only education
available at the time to FLDS children. He was sent to work for
his half-brother's business. This was not a summer job. This
was full-time, year-round employment of sorts. My son was not
paid.
In Colorado City, I did not know a safe place I could go to
report child labor abuse. I could not report it to local
authorities because they were all part of the FLDS. I feared if
I went outside of the community to Child Protective Services I
would be held accountable because I was his mother.
I knew, as does every woman in the FLDS, that polygamy is
an illegal lifestyle. We fear going to any service agencies
outside our community because of the risk that we would get
into trouble instead of being helped. We are all multi-
generational Americans, but we have the same fears as any
illegal immigrant. I know I did not believe I had the same
constitutional rights as other Americans.
In 2002, as Warren Jeffs increased his tyrannical hold on
the FLDS, all FLDS children were taken out of public schools
and placed in religious schools. The focus moved from teaching
reading, writing, and mathematics to Warren Jeffs's tapes,
which indoctrinated the children into such beliefs as these. If
a man is instructed by the FLDS prophet to take the life of
another human being, he should do so in humility.
All school materials had to be authorized and approved by
Warren Jeffs, which meant that religious schools did not have
access to normal educational textbooks. In the FLDS school my
children attended, there was no one with a college education.
It was forbidden. To the best of my knowledge, none of the
teachers were certified. No standardized tests were ever given
to measure a child's learning progress. This is creating a
generation that is functionally illiterate. After we escaped 5
years ago, my children started in public schools. They were
already at least 3 years behind academically.
In 2006, after Warren Jeffs was arrested, the religious
schools in Colorado City and Hildale were closed. Parents were
told to keep their children home and pray for the destruction
of ``the wicked.'' Approximately 700 households of FLDS member
families were affected by this order, and for the last 2 years,
the majority of FLDS children residing in Colorado City and
Hildale have not been registered for either home schooling or
religious schooling. Their education has essentially stopped.
Somewhere toward the end of 2001, Warren Jeffs started
taking young girls who were between the ages of 14 and 16 from
Colorado City, Arizona, and Hildale, Utah, to Merril Jessop's
hotel in Nevada to perform secret marriages. While not all men
in the FLDS have plural marriages and engage in sex with
underage girls, it is considered socially acceptable and
religiously desirable behavior, especially under the leadership
of Warren Jeffs.
In 2003, one of the main reasons I fled with my eight
children was that Betty, my oldest daughter, was about to turn
14, the age at which young girls were being married. After I
escaped, Merril subsequently married two 16-year-old girls: one
was to him from an FLDS group in Canada, the other was sent
from Hildale, Utah to his home in Colorado City, Arizona. I
know this because Merril introduced these teenage girls to my
children as his new wife.
I speak truthfully and from firsthand experience when I say
that I was not free to leave my husband or this religion. From
the time I took my first steps away from Merril Jessop, I
needed legal protection.
It took 2\1/2\ years before I received any housing
assistance. Because of the number of my children, I did not
qualify for low-income housing. I was told by a State employee
that I qualified in terms of need for refugee services.
However, these services are only available for people coming
from other countries. In other words, there is more help for a
woman fleeing the persecution of a communist country than there
is for a woman fleeing from polygamy.
Women leaving close polygamous communities need physical
protection, psychological intervention, and emotional support
for themselves and their children. They need appropriate
housing assistance, most of which exists for women with only
three or four children.
When I first fled, I felt like I had landed on another
planet. I had only limited exposure to the outside world, a
world I had been brainwashed to believe from birth was evil. My
rights to my own life and liberty were taken from me when I was
forced to marry Merril Jessop. I never knew what it meant to
feel safe until I was 35 years old and went into hiding on the
third day of freedom after our escape. It took me a year before
I could think of myself as a person, not an object.
I stand here today to ask the U.S. Government to provide
Federal oversight to closed FLDS communities so the FLDS
members who are seeking refuge know where they can find a safe
haven if they choose to leave. I stand here today to ask the
U.S. Government to see that the laws of this land are reliably
and equally enforced in FLDS communities as they are in the
rest of the United States. I stand here today to ask the
Government to guarantee that reasonable education be provided
for FLDS children, the same as it is for other American
children. I stand here today to ask the U.S. Government, my
Government, to show up for FLDS children the same as it does
with respect to all of its other citizens. This would not be
religious persecution, just equal protection, equal enforcement
of the law.
Thank you for inviting me to testify today.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Jessop appears as a
submission for the record.]
Senator Whitehouse. Well, thank you for your testimony, and
thank you to all of the witnesses. Each of you in your own way
has really been remarkable: Mr. Singular, in your persistence
in investigating and bringing to light these practices; Dr.
Fischer, in surviving them and turning what happened to you
into such a force for good for the Lost Boys that, as you point
out, are produced by biology and mathematics in a polygamous
community; and perhaps most astonishingly, to you, Ms. Jessop,
who at such a young age with so many young children dependent
on you, with so little support behind you, and with a
completely uncertain future in an unknown world, in fact, in
front of you, nevertheless took the courageous step of stepping
into that unknown and away from everything that you knew and
pursued freedom you knew that you and they deserved. It is a
very impressive story.
I am not going to ask questions at this point. I am going
to defer to Senator Hatch.
Senator Hatch. Well, thank you. I will not ask many
questions. But, Dr. Fischer, I think you should be commended
for how generous you have been with your resources and through
your organization, the Diversity Foundation. You mentioned in
your statement the FLDS polygamy has ``degenerated into a cult
that is far from benign,'' if I have quoted you correctly. What
do you think has changed in the FLDS church over the past
several years to warrant your making that statement?
Mr. Fischer. Yes, I think the first significant changes
occurred around 1957, 1958, when it became church policy
mandating that courtship stop, that young people would be
married strictly by appointment of the leadership. This puts a
tremendous magnitude of power within a leadership.
I believe another factor was the institution around the
same time of a young man's missionary program in which they
would work for 2 to 3 years for the church. If they proved to
be worthy, obedient, they were given a ``blessing,'' namely, a
wife.
I see also the milestones of increased pressures for the
law of consecration in which, if you were FLDS living in Salt
Lake, you should have your home, your title assigned over to
the leadership. This was a given in Short Creek.
I see in the mid-1980s then a very aged prophet, a
gentleman so well respected by FLDS for his human and family
values, even in spite of the laws against polygamy, who as he
became older, and with some of the priesthood council split and
Rulon Jeffs only standing by him, putting in place a scary
precedent.
It evolved in that time that Leroy Johnson should be looked
at as the one man who was virtually as God; and, furthermore,
that, in fact, he would never die. And then it evolved to where
the world would end in the year 2000, which brings another
tremendous amount of fear to membership.
It also became common teaching, often from the pulpit, that
God would not allow a mentally compromised individual to sit in
the capacity of prophet of that society. So by the time Warren
was able to grasp the reins--Warren, I believe firmly, is not a
normal human--I lived with him with my own children in the Alta
Academy--It enabled him to immediately be looked at as a
virtual god, and it became virtually impossible for people to
be able to speak frankly so to say this guy is stuck in the
mud. He is not only stuck in the mud, he has a blown engine.
It is a remarkable set of circumstances that have brought
them to this point.
Senator Hatch. Well, thank you.
Ms. Jessop, I, too, applaud your courage and determination,
and without a doubt you have been through an awful lot. The
experience that you outlined in your statement, the various
experiences were very moving and we are grateful that you could
be here and help us here today.
Now, in your testimony you mentioned that you previously
did not believe that you had the same constitutional rights as
other Americans. Could you elaborate on that a little bit more?
Ms. Jessop. That involves the fact that I knew if I went to
authorities, I would be viewed as a criminal. So I did not
believe that--I mean, I did not see myself as a normal citizen.
Senator Hatch. I see.
Ms. Jessop. And so I just believed that, you know, I did
not have access to the same protections.
The other thing, the other element, is there were
substantial holes in my education. I did go to public school
within the FLDS, but as I covered in my statement, I did not
read. But the administration were all FLDS, so were the
teachers, most of the teachers. And it was not at all uncommon
to receive a textbook with chapters cut out. So I did have
substantial holes in my education as to what my rights were and
how I was protected.
Senator Hatch. I see. Now, I understand that Arizona and
Utah both established 24-hour toll-free hotlines operated by
professional counselors to talk about child abuse and domestic
violence. Do you believe that the victims in the polygamous
communities are aware of these hotlines? And if so, do they
have the fear of using them?
Ms. Jessop. I know that those hotlines were established
after I talked to Mr. Shurtleff about my experience and how
difficult it was for me to get out of the community. There have
been individuals that have donated signs to help fund some of
the awareness. So I believe that there is some awareness. I do
not know how much. I do think that people are terrified to use
those lines because, if they do--if you want to try leaving the
society, failure is not an option. You cannot fail. I am sure
that an individual would be terrified in using that line and if
somebody overheard them talking. Will there be appropriate
help? How quickly will it come? There are a lot of concerns.
Senator Hatch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Whitehouse. Senator Cardin?
Senator Cardin. Well, I want to join with the Chairman and
Senator Hatch in thanking you for appearing here, and I admire
your courage in doing the investigations or what you have done
in escaping the circumstances and turning this around to try to
help other people. I thank you for that.
I would just like to give an analogy to an issue that the
United States has been in the forefront in the international
community, and that is, we have led the fight against the
trafficking mainly of young women, but also boys,
internationally, and have been responsible for the change of
laws in other countries and the international organizations
establishing the ability to help countries deal with the issues
of trafficking.
What happens in trafficking is that in many cases there are
different entities that are involved with telling women there
are opportunities in other countries and they either transport
them illegally or they keep their travel documents and keep
their money so that they are involved in prostitution or other
types of child labor issues and are trapped. And if they try to
leave, there is no opportunity to leave because they do not
have their documents, they do not have any money, and if they
go to the local police, the local police look at them as
criminals, as you pointed out, Ms. Jessop. As you sought
services, you were looked at as being different, that you did
something wrong; you were involved in a polygamous marriage,
therefore, you were a criminal.
And it took us a long time to get it through that you are a
victim, and the people that are involved here are victims. And
I think, Ms. Jessop, your recommendation that there be services
available, that we treat the people who have been trapped in
these circumstances as victims, until we get that through, I
think it is going to be very difficult to deal with these
colonies.
I am pleased that Senator Reid in his legislation
acknowledges this and provides for help for victims. And I
think we need to do a better job in the way that we get public
attention to this issue. I raised with the last panel that
those that are involved as public officials in communities that
do nothing about it, to me they are the ones that really need
to be focused on, because they are allowing this to continue.
I think Senator Hatch's point about making it clear that
there is going to be help available so that people feel
comfortable to come forward, that this will be immediate and it
will be effective in being able to escape the traps that are
currently available.
So, again, I want to thank you for giving us a face to this
issue. I know it is not easy to be here today, and I thank all
three of our witnesses.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Whitehouse. I thank Senator Cardin for his
observation. Senator Cardin has really distinguished himself in
the Senate for his concern and work on international human
rights issues. And I had not really thought of it before, but
the trafficking analogy is really quite a good one. It is sort
of trafficking in place. But the abuse, the lack of choice, the
dependence--all of the elements that create the sort of aura of
servitude and loss of freedom that is sort of the underlying
concern about trafficking. It is not the travel that is the
problem with trafficking. It is the servitude, and really that
I think is what we are seeing here.
I just have one question. Attorney General Abbott in his
testimony mentioned that this organization had what he
described as unlimited resources. And Ms. Jessop in her
testimony mentioned that this organization has vast resources.
I wonder if each of you would care to comment briefly on any
measure you might be able to give us, either precise or just
sort of by comparison, of what you believe the extent of the
resources are under the control of this organization. Mr.
Singular?
Mr. Singular. Well, we know that when the heat started to
come on them in Utah and Arizona, they began buying land in
South Dakota. They bought 1,700 acres in Texas. They bought a
couple of pieces of property in western Colorado. More
recently, they have been buying several more pieces of property
on the other side of the mountains in Colorado, south-central
Colorado. We know Jeffs had a high-powered set of attorneys
during his legal incarceration and trial. He is on trial again
in Arizona. I talked in my presentation about the land going
from $700,000 to $20.5 million. I was on the property a couple
of months ago. Very impressive buildings there.
There seems to be endless income streams coming into the
sect from all different sources, and I think that is really
what needs to be investigated. There has been talk of them
creating dummy corporations all around the West and laundering
money through them and that needs to be looked into. That has
occurred in Nevada, and I believe has occurred in Wyoming. It
is one of the ways that they buy property and move money
around. It is also the way that they keep this from being
traced back to church leaders like Jeffs. They filter it
through these corporations.
As I mentioned in here, again, there are private
investigators who have looked into this. There are a number of
people who should be brought forward in front of the task force
who have more information, who have spent years looking into
this, who can show where the money is being filtered and
laundered, if it is, and that is what needs to be pursued.
Senator Whitehouse. Dr. Fischer, do you have any
observation on the extent of their wealth and resources?
Mr. Fischer. Yes. Even connecting to lands being
consecrated to the priested, from even back in the mid-1930s,
and, in fact, Colorado City-Hildale was established by their
forefathers, if you will, and all lumped into what was a
``united effort'' fund or trust with all of the properties held
in common. This had been the case until a judge determined
Warren unfit to administer the ``united efforts'' trust. Prior
to that, Warren had men selling off parcels of these properties
which I am sure helped fund many of his activities from Texas
to South Dakota and the like.
There was a large ranch, for example, that was owned by the
Steed family bordering Bryce Canyon, a fabulous large spread.
It was a very important piece for even providing food and
sustenance to poor members of the community. This was sold off,
I am told, for about $8 million. I am sure these type of sales
have helped him immensely.
My younger brother, Shem, who is one of the few who have
gotten out, the only one of my brothers of my father's first
two wives, save myself, shares how, when visiting another
company in the FLDS, how the employees have not been paid for
some three to four pay periods. They were invited to take
vouchers in lieu of paychecks to obtain things in trade and
with the direct communication to them that this would prevent
the need for paying taxes.
It is important to note that Warren Jeffs with his father
in the early 1990s began a systematic takeover of all the
businesses in which the owners were expected to sign the
ownership of their businesses over to FLDS/Jeffs leadership.
This furthermore keeps many of these people in line. A sad
fallout is that certainly mixing church and state is a problem,
but mixing church and businesses is goofy.
And it leads me to one other factor that I failed to
mention to you, Senator Hatch, on the subject of the changes.
One of the most significant changes that came about occurred
starting in the mid- to later 1990s in which, to our horror, it
became evident that not only did this leadership now possess
the ability of determining who one married but additionally had
the ability to determine for how long they stayed married and
what happened to them by a unilateral determination. And that
is when the massive annihilation of families started in which
at just a phone call, as early as 4:30 a.m. for my father's
family. All were invited to the Jeffs compound. Rulon presided.
My younger brother, Shem, was there. He wrote a firsthand
account. If you do not mind, Mr. Chairman, I am going to read
his report. I think it is important you understand that this
magnitude of control will cause men, young people, and others
to do whatever they are told, to work for nothing, even to
generate moneys to support this prophet.
Senator Whitehouse. Proceed.
Mr. Fischer. Shem states: ``On or about October 1999, the
sound of the ringing telephone awoke me at about 4:30 a.m. at
my Hildale home. The trembling sound of my mother, Mary Zitting
Fischer, was faintly audible as she delivered the following
message: `Shem, dear, you and your family need to get dressed
and meet me at Uncle Rulon's place at 5:30 a.m. this morning. I
have been released from your father.' ''
This means divorced.
``I have been released from your father, and it is
important you attend the meeting this morning and get
instructions from our prophet as to what you should do.''
``There was never any indication of any problem of this
magnitude with my father or our family, so such came as a total
shock. Astonished by what I had just heard, I began asking
questions. Mom simply said, `Shem, be at Uncle Rulon's at 5:30
a.m.' ''
``Then came the audible click of the phone followed by the
dial tone. I awoke my wife and children and helped get them
dressed, then made the trip up the street to Uncle Rulon's home
on Utah Avenue, a few blocks away. Upon arrival, I discovered
my dad's three wives assembled with many of my other brothers
and sisters. They were huddled in the center of the large front
room located just inside the front entrance of Rulon Jeffs's
sprawling hilltop home. To my surprise, my dad was not invited,
nor was he in attendance. Several of my siblings were crying,
and many of my brothers were obviously torn about the
situation.''
``After several minutes, Warren could be seen assisting his
father, Rulon Jeffs, across the room to a big overstuffed
armchair. Rulon was very gray, feeble, and he was using oxygen.
The room slowly grew quiet except for the occasional sound of a
child's sob. Warren Jeffs began by saying our father was not
worthy of his three wives, and the time was too short for him
to repent. He had lost the power of his priesthood. We needed
to lift up his wives and preserve them from the destruction
that would soon cover the North and South American continents.
Warren went on to assure us that his father, Rulon, had prayed
about this for quite some time and this was the will of God.''
``All of my father's sons were admonished to support `God's
will' in this decision and to support God's prophet on the
Earth at this time.''
``Suddenly, Warren Jeffs was interrupted by my 8-year-old
sister, Lily Ann Fischer. Sobbing profusely, Lily said, `Is
there no hope at all for my father's salvation? Can't he repent
and get his family back?' Without hesitation, Warren simply
said, cold and calm, `No. The time is too short. There is no
hope for your father to gain the highest degree of salvation.'
''
``His voice was so very cold and direct as he continued to
direct dad's family to support their actions. Warren asked all
the sons to show their support by shaking hands with him and
his father, Rulon, who was slumped over and drooling on
himself.''
``At that point, I became very conflicted with the
proceedings and exited the room with my family without shaking
hands with Warren and his father. The blood was cast in the
water at that time, and I knew Warren would soon take action to
cut me off from my family and the social community I had known
for 30-plus years.''
``Within 5 days, all three of my mothers were assigned to
other men, one of them my biological mother''--Shem's
biological mother--``and the biological sons of each mother
were encouraged to drop their surname ``Fischer'' and take up
the surname of their new father. My mother married Rulon Jeffs,
who was married earlier to my two biological sisters, Mary and
Ruth. My mother (Shem's) became something like Rulon's 57th
wife. Rachel, Dan's mother ''--myself--``was married to Dan
Jessop, Senior, and Robin was married to Alan Steed, who had
also previously been married to my little sister, Sarah, but
was later remarried, with all the other wives of Alan's, to
Dean Cook, when Alan's family was destroyed and he was sent to
``repent from afar''--meaning Robin Fischer with her children
were now passed on to a third man.
``My father was given 4 hours to remove his personal
effects from the home he had built over a 30-year period. He
was instructed to move into the upstairs unfinished space of
his son Lorin's house. He was instructed to continue to provide
financial support for his minor children even though he could
no longer visit or associate with them.''
``Things became extremely difficult for me over the next
several months. Warren became extremely bold in delivering
modern-day revelations by his father Rulon Jeffs. In mid-July
2000, Warren delivered a sermon at a general meeting and told
the FLDS faithful to stop doing business with apostates''--
apostates are those who have left--``and to remove any apostate
employee from their business. As a result of this sermon, John
Musser, a quality employee, was fired. I opposed this action
and was eventually called to meet with Warren Jeffs and his
legal advocate, Sam Barlow, to determine my fate.''
``After 2 hours of frustrating discussions with Warren, he
instructed Sam Barlow to remove me from the UEP property and to
make sure I never again associated with any of the FLDS
faithful. I was soon evicted from my home and the family
business I had helped to build my entire life. I was age 40. It
is a hell of a feeling to all at once discover you are in
forfeit at age 40.''
``I tried contacting brothers. To the few who would talk to
me on the phone, I tried to explain to them my experience with
Warren and that he was abnormal. This goes nowhere, obviously.
I managed to talk to my father. He said that it was God's will
and, furthermore''--and now we are talking November 1999--
``that the end of the world was imminent, which he believed to
his core.''
``I said, `Dad, Dad, please trust me. The world is going to
continue after the year 2000.' He gave me evidence that it
wouldn't, even citing the example of that rare''--my mind went
blank, when you have not a hurricane but a spiral cloud.
Senator Whitehouse. Tornado?
Mr. Fischer. Yes, when that strange tornado went through
Salt Lake and killed one of our Utah citizens. Dad claimed that
that was a manifestation from God that the end was near. He
claimed other manifestations.
``I said, `Dad, how about we meet in the year 2001 and we
talk about it? ' He wouldn't commit. So I said: `Dad, let's
meet in the year 2002.' He wouldn't commit. so I said, `Dad,
how about we talk in 2003? ' He said, `Well, OK, maybe.' ''
We never had the chance for that conversation to occur. My
father put a lot of miles on his car every year in his
business. He could drive 50,000 miles a year. He was known to
go to sleep at the wheel. It had become family practice, if he
was making trips beyond town, that an older child who had a
driver's license would go and drive for him. Once he approached
the home that he had built over 30 years, now occupied by Alan
Steed, who had been married to his third wife, with many of her
children, including older teenage sons in the house, to ask if
one of his sons could come with him. In a scornful voice, he
said, ``Whose sons? '' And he found he had to drive alone. He
was in his mid-seventies.
At a stretch of the freeway between Hurricane and St.
George, he plowed into one of the only deep ravines for some
distance. There weren't any skid marks. Did he go to sleep?
Possibly. Did he just decide to plow it in? Possibly. Do I hold
Warren responsible? In either case, yes.
There have been men who have even committed suicide upon
these atrocious activities. When you have the fear and the type
of fear that requires you and even all around you act as though
you sustain and uphold and support the prophet--and you must--
because if by any sense or measure the prophet determines that
you are out of sync, disobedient with his desires, you can be
pulled before him. He will demand confessions, even written. He
will tell the man that God has revealed to him all of the sins
and that if the man's list does not match what God has revealed
to him, it is a major problem.
When you have that magnitude of power over men, over
families, and when you have a people who have grown up in
earlier years with a fabulous work ethic, as a resourceful
people, especially growing up with values--I would not exchange
the values taught from my mother's knee for anything. But when
you gain control of a few thousand people who have all those
values and work ethic, you can accomplish a lot--and,
tragically, even when those resources are sadly misused.
Senator Whitehouse. Well, I very much appreciate the
testimony of all of the witnesses. The time for this hearing is
actually long past, but I thought it was worth continuing it.
I thank you all very much. Each of you has engaged in acts
of courage that are impressive to this Committee. We appreciate
it.
The record of this hearing will remain open for 7 days if
anybody wishes to add anything to these proceedings, and other
than that, the hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:15 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
[Questions and answers and submissions for the record
follow.]
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