[House Hearing, 111 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
THE 2010 CENSUS: ENUMERATING PEOPLE LIVING IN GROUP QUARTERS
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON INFORMATION POLICY,
CENSUS, AND NATIONAL ARCHIVES
of the
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
FEBRUARY 22, 2010
__________
Serial No. 111-82
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
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COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York, Chairman
PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania DARRELL E. ISSA, California
CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York DAN BURTON, Indiana
ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland JOHN L. MICA, Florida
DENNIS J. KUCINICH, Ohio MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana
JOHN F. TIERNEY, Massachusetts JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee
WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio
DIANE E. WATSON, California LYNN A. WESTMORELAND, Georgia
STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts PATRICK T. McHENRY, North Carolina
JIM COOPER, Tennessee BRIAN P. BILBRAY, California
GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia JIM JORDAN, Ohio
MIKE QUIGLEY, Illinois JEFF FLAKE, Arizona
MARCY KAPTUR, Ohio JEFF FORTENBERRY, Nebraska
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of JASON CHAFFETZ, Utah
Columbia AARON SCHOCK, Illinois
PATRICK J. KENNEDY, Rhode Island BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois ANH ``JOSEPH'' CAO, Louisiana
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland
HENRY CUELLAR, Texas
PAUL W. HODES, New Hampshire
CHRISTOPHER S. MURPHY, Connecticut
PETER WELCH, Vermont
BILL FOSTER, Illinois
JACKIE SPEIER, California
STEVE DRIEHAUS, Ohio
JUDY CHU, California
Ron Stroman, Staff Director
Michael McCarthy, Deputy Staff Director
Carla Hultberg, Chief Clerk
Larry Brady, Minority Staff Director
Subcommittee on Information Policy, Census, and National Archives
WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri, Chairman
CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York PATRICK T. McHENRY, North Carolina
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of LYNN A. WESTMORELAND, Georgia
Columbia JOHN L. MICA, Florida
DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois JASON CHAFFETZ, Utah
STEVE DRIEHAUS, Ohio
DIANE E. WATSON, California
HENRY CUELLAR, Texas
Darryl Piggee, Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Hearing held on February 22, 2010................................ 1
Statement of:
Groves, Robert, Director, U.S. Census Bureau; Robert
Goldenkoff, Director, Strategic Issues, Government
Accountability Office; Peter Wagner, executive director,
Prison Policy Initiative; and Thomas Ellett, associate vice
president, student affairs, New York University............ 18
Ellett, Thomas........................................... 50
Goldenkoff, Robert....................................... 28
Groves, Robert........................................... 18
Wagner, Peter............................................ 44
Letters, statements, etc., submitted for the record by:
Clay, Hon. Wm. Lacy, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Missouri, prepared statement of................... 3
Ellett, Thomas, associate vice president, student affairs,
New York University, prepared statement of................. 52
Goldenkoff, Robert, Director, Strategic Issues, Government
Accountability Office, prepared statement of............... 30
Groves, Robert, Director, U.S. Census Bureau, prepared
statement of............................................... 21
Towns, Hon. Edolphus, a Representative in Congress from the
State of New York, prepared statement of................... 12
Wagner, Peter, executive director, Prison Policy Initiative,
prepared statement of...................................... 46
THE 2010 CENSUS: ENUMERATING PEOPLE LIVING IN GROUP QUARTERS
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MONDAY, FEBRUARY 22, 2010
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Information Policy, Census, and
National Archives,
Committee on Oversight and Government Reform,
Brooklyn, NY.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., at
Brooklyn Borough Hall, 209 Joralemon Street, Brooklyn, NY, Hon.
Wm. Lacy Clay (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Clay and Towns (ex officio).
Staff present: Darryl Piggee, staff director/counsel; Jean
Gosa, clerk; Yvette Cravins, counsel; Frank Davis, Anthony
Clark, and William Jusino, professional staff members; and
Shrita Sterlin, deputy communications director.
Mr. Clay. Good morning. The Information Policy, Census, and
National Archives Subcommittee of the Oversight and Government
Reform Committee will now come to order. Without objection the
Chair and the panel will have 5 minutes to make opening
statements followed by opening statements by any other Members
that may arrive.
Let me begin by welcoming all of you to today's oversight
hearing of ``The 2010 Census: Enumerating People Living in
Group Quarters.'' I also want to say I am so pleased to be here
as a guest of Chairman Towns and to be in this stately room.
The purpose of today's hearing is to examine efforts to
enumerate group quarter populations as the Census Bureau
prepares for the 2010 census.
I want to thank Chairman Towns for his leadership of the
Oversight Committee and his recognition of the importance of
the 2010 census. I also want to thank him for bringing us here
this morning. I always enjoy coming to New York, and especially
to Brooklyn. I truly appreciate the hospitality afforded by you
and your staff.
Mr. Chairman, as you know, Kings County is one of the
hardest counties hit in the United States, so it is important
that we are here today to discuss efforts to reduce the
undercount in the 2010 census.
The Group Quarters population consist of all persons
residing in the United States who do not live in housing units
such as single-family houses, apartments and mobile homes.
Group quarters consist of nursing homes, military barracks,
correctional facilities, juvenile institutions, migrant worker,
dormitory, convents and group homes. Group quarters populations
are different from housing as a unit population in counting
people in group quarters and is very different from counting
people in housing units. Today we will discuss the various
sites of group quarters and the special places that contain
them.
In the last census universities and military bases and
correctional institutions were the most sizable special places.
Skilled nursing facilities and assisted living facilities are
other examples of special places. The populations are expected
to increase with baby-boomers retiring in record numbers.
We want this hearing today to focus on the challenges that
the Bureau and the group quarters organizations are facing as
we prepare for the 2010 census. We want to know what you think
about your plan and how effective you think they will be, and
we want your input about how we can improve this process both
now and in the next census. Additionally, we want you to reach
out and network with the people at organizations that you come
in contact with here today to further increase the chance in
the county of counting as many people as possible.
It is our hope through our hearing today we will gain a
better understanding of the plans for enumerating people living
in group quarters during the 2010 census.
And now I yield to Chairman Towns.
[The prepared statement of Hon. Wm. Lacy Clay follows:]
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Mr. Towns. Thank you very much, Chairman Clay. First of
all, let me welcome you to Brooklyn. And you're right, we had
some problems in the past in terms of making certain that we
get an accurate count, but I also need to point out that was
before we--let me make that very clear.
The 2010 census is a top priority for the committee. It has
been following it very closely. With only 6 weeks to go until
census day on April 1st, we want to make sure that the Census
Bureau and our constituents are ready for it. A fair and
accurate census is the only way we have to ensure fairness, and
we join in the recognition of enforcement of Members of the
House and distribution of vital services and benefits to those
who need it the most.
Chairman Clay, it is my hope that this hearing will provide
an opportunity for the members of this committee to hear about
the preparation the Census Bureau has made to make sure that we
get the most accurate and complete census count ever. Several
challenges to a successful census, of course, remain, but it is
not too late for us to work together to address them.
Let me make it very clear, I am not interested in the blame
game, I'm interested in the correction game. We are concerned
today about the counting of people living in what we call group
home quarters. This includes people living in group situations
such as college, dormitories, nursing homes, military barracks,
prisons, juvenile institutions, migrant workers, convents and
group homes. The Census Bureau counts people according to where
they reside on census day April 1st, even if that is not their
permanent address.
In the past weaknesses within this system as well as other
problems have led to some people being counted twice, some
people being missed entirely. Past censuses have not treated
all communities equally. Historically many communities have
been underserved by this census count. Many millions of the
people out of the population count. With millions of dollars in
Federal and State funding tied to the count and with so many in
our community that need our help, we cannot accept that this
time around.
The Census Bureau and the Government Accountability Office
have studied the undercount very closely and we look forward to
hearing from them today as they address this issue. They share
our concerns about the harm that has been done to historically
undercounted communities, and I hope you share our commitment
to making this right. In order to do that we must put more
resources into those areas that have been undercounted. We
cannot continue doing the same thing and then expecting
different results.
I look forward to working with you, Chairman Clay, and the
members on this committee as we continue our extended oversight
of the 2010 census. It is a critical constitutionally mandated
function, and we need to make sure we get it right.
I also look forward to hearing from our witnesses whose
continued hard work has brought us to where we are today. And
we will help and it will help us ensure that we have the most
accurate and complete census count ever. We want to let the
Census Bureau know that we are eager to do our part to help
make this happen. And, of course, in order to do it, we might
have to make some changes based on information that might come
forward in a hearing of this nature, and I'm hoping that there
is the flexibility coming from some of the leadership.
On that note, Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of the
time.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much, Chairman Towns.
[The prepared statement of Hon. Edolphus Towns follows:]
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Mr. Clay. I appreciate your opening statement, especially
the part about we cannot continue to do the same thing over and
over again. You're absolutely correct.
Now we will move to the testimony portion of this hearing
and I will introduce our panel. The first witness will be Dr.
Robert Groves, the Director of the U.S. Census Bureau. Dr.
Groves began his tenure as Director on July 16, 2009. Earlier
he was the Census Bureau Associate Director for the Statistical
Design Methodology. In 2008 he became a recipient of a
prestigious award in recognition of the time he contributed to
the development of the economic statistics. He is the author,
the co-author of several articles. He got his bachelor degree
in statistics and sociology from the University of Michigan. He
also earned his doctorate in Michigan. Thank you for being
here.
Our next witness is Mr. Robert Goldenkoff, Director of
Strategic Issues with the U.S. Government Accountability
Office. Mr. Goldenkoff is responsible for reviewing 2010 census
and government wide counting reform. Prior research areas have
included transportation securities, combative union
trafficking, Federal statistics program. He received a BA in
political science and a masters of public administration degree
from the George Washington University.
Next we will hear from Mr. Peter Wagner, executive director
of the Prison Policy Initiative. Mr. Wagner teaches, lectures
and writes about the impact of incarceration in the United
States. His current focus is on the U.S. Census Bureau counting
of the Nation's prison population. He has presented his
research at national and international conferences and meetings
including to key note directors at Harvard and Brown
Universities. Thank you for being here, Mr. Wagner.
Our final witness will be Professor Thomas Ellett,
associate VP for student affairs at New York University, which
has an exemplary university housing system in the United States
and the largest among private schools. He currently oversees a
significant student affairs unit at NYU including residential
life. He is an adjunct associate assistant professor in the
Steinhardt School of Culture Education in New York.
Professional Ellett received his Ph.D. from Fordham University
right here in New York. And I thank all of our witnesses for
appearing here today and look forward to your testimony.
It is the policy of the committee to swear in all witnesses
before their testimony. Please stand and raise your right
hands.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Clay. Thank you. You may be seated.
Let the record reflect that the witnesses answered in the
affirmative.
I ask that each of the witnesses now give a brief summary
of their testimony. Please limit your summary as I have
mentioned, and it will be included in the hearing record.
Dr. Groves, you may begin with your opening statement.
STATEMENTS OF ROBERT GROVES, DIRECTOR, U.S. CENSUS BUREAU;
ROBERT GOLDENKOFF, DIRECTOR, STRATEGIC ISSUES, GOVERNMENT
ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE; PETER WAGNER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PRISON
POLICY INITIATIVE; AND THOMAS ELLETT, ASSOCIATE VICE PRESIDENT,
STUDENT AFFAIRS, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY
STATEMENT OF ROBERT GROVES
Dr. Groves. Chairman Towns, Chairman Clay, it's great to be
with you today here in New York.
First, it's important for me to start by noting that the
2010 census has begun. We began on January 25th in a little
native village in Alaska called Noorvik, and we are mounting
operations almost daily to build on that.
Our advertising campaign is on the air and in print. The
purpose of that campaign, it's important to get the word out
about the census. Our data shows that knowledge, public
knowledge about the census is at an all time low for the
decade.
In my last testimony in front of this committee I noted a
set of future activities and risks that existed in the late
fall. We're 60 days away from census day right now. We've
addressed many of those preparations for future activities.
Some risks still exist. I'm happy to talk about them later, but
we have notable achievement.
All roughly 500 census, local census offices are open,
staffed, equipment is in place, computer networks are working
to serve them. We are now recruiting for the big push of census
staff that will hit the field. We now have over 2.4 million
applicants in the pool. We're on schedule for that. We have
exceeded our goals. We had a goal of about 120,000 partnership
organizations that helped us get the word out. Just last week
that number is now 200,000. This is a fantastic comment, I
think, on this country's willingness to work with us to get the
word out about this census. We have 9,600, nearly 10,000
complete count committees around the country. Most of those are
government base, some are with private sector workers.
We're on track with all the printing of forms. In a matter
of days they'll be 425 semi-trailers that will leave our
warehouses filled with forms that will hit post offices around
the country. We started on February 1st group quarters advance
visits that are key to the issue that we're discussing today,
I'll be happy to expand on that. And then we delivered to the
postal service about 10 million advance letters to update these
areas. So, a lot is happening right now, the pace is picking
up.
But let me turn to the chief focus on this hearing--the
enumeration of so called group quarters, well defined by both
chairmen in their remarks.
I think it's important, what I'll do is basically give a
lot of basic definitions that give the historical background of
why the census has done what it does. We use what is called the
usual residence rule. This is based on the Census Act of March
1790, where the first Congress expressed the mandate that we
would count people in their usual abode. Since the first
Congress contained a lot of the Founding Fathers as Members we
interpret that as the will of those who wrote the constitution.
The concept of usual residence remains intact today. The usual
residence rule is intended to count people once and in the
right place, that is where they generally eat, sleep and work
most of the time. So, the question of pertinence to us today is
how does that logic apply to group quarters.
What I'd like to do is go through some major types of group
quarters to give you a sense of how this is applied. Let's
begin with prisons and jails. We count prisoners and have done
so every decade of our lives in those facilities because that
is where they live and sleep most of the time following the
usual residence rule.
In prisons, which are generally State or Federal
facilities, by way of definition that incarcerates those
convicted in criminal court and sentenced to terms for more
than a year. In contrast, jails contain people incarcerated who
are pending some sort of adjudication process.
In those facilities the Bureau seeks to get an individual
census record filled out by each prisoner. For practical and
logistical constraints in those facilities, we can't do that
always. Despite our efforts for security and other reasons and
because of the wishes of those who control the prison, we
sometimes rely on administrative records. That is an issue in
counting of group quarters in general, individual census
records versus administrative records.
Let me turn to colleges and universities and seminary
dormitories. College students fall into several categories.
There are those living away from their parental home while
attending college. They are counted at the residence where they
live and sleep most of the time where they are on April 1st.
Foreign students studying in the United States are counted at
their household location, generally in college provided housing
or off campus housing. U.S. students traveling and are studying
abroad are excluded from the 2010 census as they have been for
every census for many decades.
The only students enumerated as part of the group quarters
operation are students living in a dormitory, fraternity or
sorority or any other housing arrangement provided by the
college, university or the seminar. College students in
apartments, off campus and other residential addresses will
receive a census questionnaire in the mail just like most
households in the United States.
Let me turn to heath care facilities, a major component of
the group quarters population. They are quite complex for us to
do censuses in because they're so diverse. The operation in
health care facilities enumerates inhabitants of long-term
facilities such as nursing homes and various forms of assisted
and unassisted living facilities. Group quarters operations
also counts inhabitants of hospitals that are in mental and
psychiatric units, long-term care units, hospice units and
patients with no disposition or exit plan.
Just as in prisons, census attempts a self enumeration
process. We do this in conjunction with hospital staff whenever
possible. There are enumerators which show up at a facility,
ideally consult with the staff, develop a plan for the
distribution of these individual census requirements to the
residents. As with prisons we must exert or must implement some
flexibility on this because of the health status of individual
patients and the need for extreme confidentiality under
regulations governing health care units.
Let me now turn to a decision we've made in the last few
days with regard to releasing counts, census counts of
residents of group quarters that we're planning for May 2011.
For the first time we will supply block level counts as defined
by Public Law 94-171 used in redistricting activities in the
State. We will supply those at the end of March 2011. In
talking to those concerned, external stakeholders about these
things, we also learned that another tabulation would be useful
for those involved in redistricting, and as it turns out in our
own count question resolution programs that looks for anomalies
in census counts.
So, for the first time we will submit for--we will release
a table from our Summary File 1 product plan, it's called
traditionally the P-41 table. Some of those in the audience may
recognize the P-41 table. We're going to do that earlier than
ever before.
That provides counts of the total universe of group
quarters, institutionalized and non-institutionalized
populations, that will include counts down to the block level
of those in correction facilities, juvenile facilities,
nursing/skilled nursing facilities and other facilities. It
will also include counts of college students in dorms, those in
military quarters and other non-institutionalized facilities.
As I said, we'll provide these down to the block level. We will
provide it over a file transfer protocol downloadable from the
Web for users in the redistricting process.
I want to close by reaffirming the Census Bureau's
commitment to an accurate count in the 2010 census. I also want
to note, as evidenced by this hearing today, our commitment to
work with the data user community throughout the country that
needs information for a diverse set of purposes.
I'd also like to stress that the Census Bureau does not
participate in any redistricting activities. Our job is a
completely non-partisan objective enumeration of the
population. Simply put, the Census Bureau collects individual
information and reports aggregates based on it. Fittingly, the
Founding Fathers left it to Federal, State and local
governments to use the information for their political
purposes. In that vein, the Census Bureau endeavors to compile
the group quarters information in the Summary File I mentioned
for its key data users and supply it as early as possible.
I want close by noting I believe the 2010 census is on
track to be a successful one. We are in a very critical time.
We need every political, social and religious leader to get the
word out that participating in the census is in all of our
hands. I look forward especially to working with the committee
in the coming months to let you know how we're doing and how
the country is proceeding on this task.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much, Dr. Groves, for your
testimony.
Dr. Groves. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Groves follows:]
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STATEMENT OF ROBERT GOLDENKOFF
Mr. Goldenkoff. Chairman Towns, Chairman Clay, I am pleased
to be here at Brooklyn Borough Hall this morning to discuss the
Census Bureau's efforts to conduct an accurate group quarters
count.
As you know, group quarters consist of college dormitories,
prisons, nursing homes and similar group living arrangements.
Examples of group quarters right here in Brooklyn include Long
Island University, Brooklyn Hospital Center and the Crossroads
Juvenile Center.
During the 2000 census for a variety of reasons group
quarters were sometimes counted more than once, missed or
included in the wrong location. However, an inaccurate
enumeration is critical because data from the census are used
to apportion seats in Congress, redraw congressional districts,
and help allocate more than $400 billion each year in Federal
aid to State and local governments. Census data are also used
to determine the boundaries of local election districts. So for
Brooklyn, as with all localities, an incomplete count could
have implication for political representation and the borough
getting its fair share of Federal assistance.
During the 2000 census Brooklyn's total population of
around 2\1/2\ million people, around 39,000 or about 1\1/2\
percent lived in group quarters. Although Brooklyn had a
smaller percentage of group quarter residents compared to the
rest of the United States. The borough's demographic diversity
and other socioeconomic factors make sections of Brooklyn
particularly hard to count. What's more, Brooklyn's range of
group quarters including colleges, group homes, convents and
rooming houses, only add to the Bureau's enumeration challenges
here.
As requested, my testimony today will now focus on first,
the extent to which the Bureau has strengthened its procedures
for counting group quarters since the 2000 census. And second,
particular challenges and opportunities for an accurate group
quarters count in Brooklyn in 2010.
My remarks today are based in part on observations at 38
locations across the country including Brooklyn, the Bronx,
Manhattan and Queens. The bottom line is that the operational
change that the Bureau has made since the 2000 census position
it to more accurately count group quarters. Still, a successful
group quarters count, particularly in an area as diverse as
Brooklyn remain a challenging task, and special efforts will be
needed to ensure complete count.
Now, following the 2000 census, the Bureau developed and
tested new procedures to address the difficulties it had in
counting group quarters. For example, in preparing for the
group quarters count the Bureau moved from a manual to GPS
generated matchbox which will help ensure group quarters are
counted in the proper jurisdiction. The Bureau also verified
group quarter facilities through site visits rather than
telephone interviews which should increase accuracy. And then
the Bureau combined the conventional housing units and group
quarters address listed to a single data base, which would
reduce the chances of double counting. The Bureau also used a
number of quality assurance procedures such as supervisory
review of workers assignment. The actual count of group
quarters residents will start at the end of March and last
through mid May.
Brooklyn presents challenges as well as opportunities.
Factors such as poverty, high levels of non-English speakers,
complex household arrangements, as well as a high percentage of
rental and vacant units, multi-unit buildings and crowded
housing all contribute to making the borough one of the most
difficult areas in the country to count.
Moving forward, in light of these demographic and housing
unit challenges, it will be important for the Bureau to carry
out remaining group quarters operations on time, according to
plan, as well as closely monitored key performance measures to
ensure that the group quarters count proceeds on track and
quickly address any glitches.
It will also be important for the Bureau to ensure that
Census workers have knowledge of the language, culture and
living arrangements of each and every neighborhood in the
borough.
That said, the Bureau cannot conduct a successful
enumeration on its own.
Census forms will soon be arriving at millions of
households across the country. It will then be up to each and
every one of us to fulfill our civic duty to complete the
questionnaire and mail it back. According to the Bureau, each
percentage point increase in the mail response rate saves
taxpayers around $85 million and yields more accurate data.
In closing, census day, April 1st, is right around the
corner. A few weeks from now the success of the 2010 census
will be both literally and figuratively in the hands of
Brooklynites and people everywhere across the country.
Chairman Towns, Chairman Clay, this concludes my remarks,
and I will be happy to answer any questions that you might
have.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much, Mr. Goldenkoff.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Goldenkoff follows:]
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Mr. Clay. Mr. Wagner, you may proceed.
STATEMENT OF PETER WAGNER
Mr. Wagner. Thank you, Chairman Towns and Chairman Clay,
for having me here today. My name is Peter Wagner, I am
executive director of the Prison Policy Initiative. And for the
last decade I studied how the Census Bureau counts people in
prisons, and we've worked to quantify the policy and legal
implications that flow from the technical decisions.
Fairly and accurately counting the prison population
matters. On census day, there will be about 2.3 million people
incarcerated in this country. That's a population that's larger
than the fourth largest city in the country and larger than 15
individual States.
I'd like to just briefly address some of the distortions in
representation that flow from the Census Bureau's current
practices regarding how incarcerated people are counted, and
address some of the long-term changes that will be needed to
fully address this problem, while also commending the Census
Bureau for making the step to make prisons and other group
quarter populations easier to find in the data.
As Dr. Groves mentioned the Census Bureau counts people in
prisons as if they actually lived in the correctional facility,
and this procedure has been used since the first census in
1790. And while it is the procedure that will be used in this
census, it's a growing concern to the State and local
governments that changes will be required in the future.
Specifically, the problems occur at the redistricting
level. It turns out there's very little impact on how Federal
funding is distributed, because most Federal funded formulas
are very highly sophisticated formulas that tailors the program
to the needs, and so they can directly or indirectly not
improve prison populations, so the redistricting implications
are pretty significant.
Just yesterday I just got back from a small town in Iowa
called Anamosa. It was a town that just recently had a city
council ward of 96 percent prisoners. In 2005, there was a city
council election and no one ran for office. And a man named
Danny Young got up, went to work for the county, came home and
found out he had just been elected to the city council. He
wasn't a candidate, he didn't vote for himself, but his wife
and a neighbor voted him into office. And this sparked a
citywide movement to change the form of government in this city
so that a situation in wards where they have prisons that are
the majority of the ward will go to a large government.
And we discovered that Anamosa is an extreme example, but
it's far from unique. Waupun, WI has a district that is 80
percent prisoners. Lake County, TN has a district that is
almost 90 percent incarcerated.
What we see in our research around the country, is that
when local governments--when citizens of rural county
governments that have prisons discover that their prisons are
changing the representation that each district has, they asked
legislature to change it. So, in the case of Franklin County,
NY, the legislature has taken prisoners out.
It's very important about the decision that the Census
Bureau has made to make the prison population easier to find
that will greatly reduce the burden on some of these rural
counties. Franklin County, NY, as I said, always takes the
prison population out, and their--but they made two mistakes in
the 2000 census to redistricting that would not occur this
time.
When they were taking the prison populations out they made
a mistake and they also took out a nursing home, and this was
the subject of a lawsuit and they corrected it. And then after
the district lines became official, they found out that they
missed a prison. A prison that they thought was on the county
line, that they thought was in the neighboring county turned
out to be in another county. So changing how the data was
published, will greatly facilitate counties and other local
governments that want to know what their actual population is.
It will give them the tools they need.
I just want to comment, Dr. Groves was very clear on this,
but there's been some confusion. The Census Bureau is not
proposing in 2010 to change where people in prison are counted.
What they are doing is making it easier for State and county,
local governments to find prisons and other group quarter
populations in the data.
I'll stop there and be happy to answer any questions.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much, Mr. Wagner.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Wagner follows:]
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Mr. Clay. Mr. Ellett.
STATEMENT OF THOMAS ELLETT
Mr. Ellett. Chairman Clay and other distinguished members
of the Information Policy, Census, and National Archives
Subcommittee, and Chairman Towns, Chairman of the Oversight and
Government Reform Committee, thank you for the opportunity to
testify today. My name, as you mentioned earlier, is Tom
Ellett, and I serve as the associate vice president for student
affairs at New York University, and I'm responsible for
overseeing the university's residence hall system.
As background for those unfamiliar with the university, NYU
is the largest private non-private institution of higher
education in the United States with a student population,
including undergraduates and graduate students, of
approximately 40,000. 11,600 of those students live in 23
number of university residence halls. The halls are located in
the lower end of Manhattan spread throughout a few mile radius
interspersed between the New York City general population. 95
percent of the first-year students reside in our facilities and
1,000 graduate students. The facilities range in size and level
of amenities.
In my opening statement, I will briefly discuss NYU's
interaction with Census officials to date and give an overview
of the university's efforts to assist in enumeration efforts.
During the question and answer period, I will be happy to
expand on some of the difficulties encountered by NYU
throughout this process and provide my own thoughts about how
Census officials may be able to ensure a more accurate student
count as they prepare for the 2020 census.
Census officials initially made contact with the
university's Office of Public Affairs late December of last
year. Shortly thereafter, NYU administrators responsible for
faculty housing, government relations and career services met
with Census officials. They were seeking NYU's assistance in
getting the highest student return rate as possible,
communicating the importance of the census to our student body
and to use university space to interview potential door to door
and local workers. Thus far, two meetings have taken place, the
most recent being late last week. We have scheduled an
additional meeting where census officials will meet with our
residence hall directors, who oversee the facility, to explain
the process of getting an accurate count of students living in
our facilities. The RHD's are key to this process because they
reside in the hall and are the professional/administrative
staff who oversee the student experience.
NYU is planning a series of proactive actions to both
communicate to our students the importance of census
participation and assist officials in receiving the highest
possible rate of return. On April 1st, the university will send
an e-mail to all students reminding them of the importance of
completing the census forms. NYU will also provide Census
officials with a list of all 11,600 students living in NYU
residence halls. This list will be in the form of envelope
labels that officials will use to send census forms to each
residence hall. Residence advisors [RAs], undergraduate and
graduate students in each building, will then hold floor
meetings to urge participation, then followup individually to
ensure full participation. Census officials will then pick up
these materials from each residence hall by the third week of
April.
Professionally, I have served on the Executive Board of the
non-profit professional association, the Association of College
and University Housing Officers-International and have queried
my colleagues from across the country who also run large campus
housing programs. During the question and answer period, I
would be happy to share both my views and the thoughts of my
colleagues around the country about how universities could more
effectively work with Census officials on our share of ensuring
a more accurate count of university residence halls.
Again, I thank the subcommittee for that opportunity to
testify today.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much, Mr. Ellett.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Ellett follows:]
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Mr. Clay. I want to thank all the witnesses for
participating here.
Chairman Towns.
Mr. Towns. Thank you very much. Let me begin with you, Dr.
Groves. The 2010 census that's been on GAO's high risk list
since March 2008, GAO cited challenges including weaknesses in
the acquisition of the management of information technology,
problems in handling computers and certainly over the final
course of this, we've covered some of these issues before, but
I'd like to ask you about one of them today.
It is my understanding that the technological concerns that
GAO had was with the limited testing of non-response followup
and group quarters count used in the paper base operation and
control system. According to GAO the test revealed problems
that will need to be addressed before census day. The test also
did not evaluate the stress the system will face with
processing the estimated 48 million housing units nationwide
that will be involved in the non-response followup. GAO added a
few of the newer temporary census employees who will actually
conduct the operations involved in the test.
These systems and others systems that the Census Bureau
created will need to run very smoothly if we are going to
ensure an accurate and complete count, particularly in
historically undercounted and overcounted communities. That's
my statement, now here's my question. Can you elaborate on the
results of these tests?
Dr. Groves. Sure. Thank you, Chairman. I'm glad this was
your first question, because I have a few things to say about
this. First of all, the GAO assessment we agree with these were
data that we supplied them, so there's disagreement among us on
this. Let me give you an update on where we are on this. As I
testified in front of Chairman Clay's subcommittee, gee, I
think it was in October, maybe September, this is the No. 1
risk that I worry about in addition to the largest risk, and
that is how will the American public respond to our request for
completed questionnaires.
There was a test, there were two tests in December of the
software. The software is now being developed because of the
change of plans that occurred before I got there in 2008, the
dropping of the hand held computers required the software to be
written anew. There were two tests in December, the first test
did not include this paper based operation control system that
you mentioned as part of the test. And also we discovered a
problem in the payroll system software. That was fixed. And
another test was run about 2 weeks after that. In both of these
tests there was an attempt to simulate load, and on the first
test there were indeed large numbers of users on the system.
There were problems found in the first test that were then
fixed. Problems in the second test were also found and those
are on the fix list, many of those have been fixed.
Let me tell you where we are right now. This software is
being released in three phases. The non-response followup phase
that you referenced is in the second release that's just been
released recently. It will actually be released, the non-
response followup software itself will be released at the end
of March, about a month before it's needed, so we're writing
the software in a schedule that essentially releases pieces of
software about a month before they're used.
Is this a high risk endeavor? Yes. Are we aware of the
risk? Yes. How are we managing this process? I set up in August
an independent assessment team that has outside computer
scientists and internal, our CIO as well as the commerce chief
technology officer. They're meeting almost daily now overseeing
a process that must happen for us to be successful with this
software. It's a set of tradeoff decisions.
As we release these successive releases and we find things
that aren't working optimally, then we form a list of fixes on
those. We're also writing the functions for the next release.
We will make tradeoff decisions going forward that will have
work around, manual work around for some of the functions that
were on the list that would have been the ideal list. I am
almost in constant communications with our regional offices
about turning computer assisted operations into manual
operations to make sure we can do those well.
The wisdom that is required on the part of the Census
Bureau right know and the external consultants I brought in is
to make those tradeoff decisions wisely, so that we have a set
of core functions that allow us to do these operations. All I
can say at this point is we are on top of this problem, we're
attempting to manage it as well as we can. The regions are
optimistic they can do the functions that are going into manual
mode because they did them that way in prior censuses as it
turns out. But this is not over and I'm happy to keep you and
the committee up to date on this as frequently as you'd like.
Mr. Towns. Let me hear from GAO.
Mr. Goldenkoff. For all of us here who are concerned about
the census I would agree with Dr. Groves. There are two things
that should keep us all up awake at night as we get closer and
closer to census day. One of those is the response rate which
is the external challenge, but the internal challenge is the
State of the IT system in particularly the PBOCS, the paper
based operational control system. We have been looking at it,
the Commerce Department Inspector General has been looking at
it and the Bureau is too, but I think that we are maybe not as
optimistic at this point from some of the data that we've been
seeing.
As we see it there are four significant issues with PBOCS.
One is people, the second is hardware, the third is software
and the fourth is schedule, and I'll talk about each one very
briefly.
The people, the folks who are the technicians who are
working on PBOCS they are working at capacity but they're
falling behind schedule. It's just not enough to train people
to go around, and they're not available to train additional
people to help out. And, you know, in the days between when
these operations, the census operations go on line, they'll be
challenges to fix these existing issues as well as deal with
new issues that come up as the different operations ramp up.
Hardware issues, there's significant problems with the
PBOCS computer that limit the number of users that can use the
systems at any one time, that still needs to be addressed.
Software issues, the critical software defects, the last
piece of data that we saw from the test, the critical software
defects continued to mount. That's not the trend you want to
have when these systems need to go live very soon. And system
performance is lagging.
The fourth major issue is schedule. Time is not on the
Bureau's side. These different operations have fixed start
dates, so the various IT systems need to be ready when
according to the schedule of the start date of these different
operations, otherwise things start to get pushed back and it
has a cavitating effect in all the downstream operations which
can affect the data quality and also add to the cost. And so,
to deal with that, one of the things, as Dr. Groves referred to
as a tradeoff, one of the things that's happening now is
different functions of the PBOCS are actually being taken off,
and so the focus now is just on those critical systems, which
is probably a good thing in terms of risk management, but it's
still going to create some challenges in the future for the
Bureau.
Mr. Towns. So you're not quite as optimistic as Dr. Groves.
Mr. Goldenkoff. They are working as hard as they can on it,
but here it is, it's the 11th hour and there's a lot of work
that needs to be done and not a whole lot of time remaining.
Mr. Towns. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We will have an
additional round of hearings scheduled.
Mr. Clay. Let me start with Mr. Ellett. Tell me, how does
the educational campaign in NYU plan to improve, for example,
campus awareness and to let parents of dormitory students know
not to count their children in the household, how do you deal
with that?
Mr. Ellett. I can't say that's an area that we have talked
to the Census about. We have certainly talked about educational
campaign for why students would want to complete the census,
and we think that we have good followup process to ensure that
every student will know that they should be doing it, and will
have multiple times should they not turn it in that our staff
will be going to them to remind them to turn in their census.
Mr. Clay. Have you any recommendations on how you can
improve group quarters enumeration at universities.
Mr. Ellett. Yes, I do. I have queried, as I mentioned,
colleagues at colleges and universities in Boston, Los Angeles,
Chicago, Florida, Illinois and other parts, Texas and other
parts of the northeast. And some of the challenges that have
been faced have been the untrained temporary Census staff who
are not aware of the university housing structure and how to
engage with universities.
There seems to be a gap in the confusion between group
quarters as relates to apartments in residence halls. A number
of large housing universities have apartments that they manage
that are directly off campus. And as the age of partnerships
grow between profit organizations in college and universities,
some of those facilities are now considered partly through the
university, and whether those are being captured or not are in
question as group quarters rather than individuals.
The geographical issue for my colleagues in urban areas are
very challenging where there will be two or three different
geographical areas and working with two to three different
Census offices rather than one. In the time line the census is
challenging. Like spring semester you see a 5 to 8 percent
decrease in student housing across universities and colleges as
students who will leave the campuses and be abroad, etc. And
the end of the semester is challenging because students will
start finals in the very beginning of April and may disappear
leaving the college campus, and whether they're being counted
at the college campus or back at home is in question.
We do have some solutions for some of these. If you'd like
to hear those I'd be glad to share those. One is the data dump.
We think that we can actually save the Census a lot of money
and time by giving you what you want. We have the information
to the top three questions already in our hands at every
college, university and we can turn it over very easily without
printing paper, being a little bit more green friendly, and
also just giving the information without Census staff having to
come back four or five times to our college campuses.
Most of my colleagues think that the on line system that is
being talked about may not be as successful as the data dump
that we can provide quickly. I will note that some of my
colleagues, actually in Florida, some colleges in Florida, are
giving the data dump directly to Census officers, while the
majority are not.
Mr. Towns. Without the Census office asking for it.
Mr. Ellett. With the Census office asking for it in some
jurisdictions, but almost every other jurisdiction they are not
asking for the data dump, which means they turn over the
records in the numbers of those students.
Last one would be each college or university is assigned
one Census office to work in, even though they may be located
in two or three different geographical areas. NYU, for
instance, has three different census areas that makes up NYU
campus.
Mr. Clay. Thank you.
Mr. Wagner, what changes in the past are--considering past
knowledge to require changes in how and where the prisons are
kept?
Mr. Wagner. Currently Oregon, Wisconsin, New York,
Illinois, Maryland and Florida have bills pending that will
apply to State or State and local legislative districts or
counties. Some of those States are developing procedures
working with the Department of Corrections to figure out where
incarcerated people come from and do an adjustment to put
people back at home. And then a number of those States have
bills that would require incarcerated population be removed
from the count. And then Virginia, Mississippi, New Jersey and
Colorado have existing laws passed in the previous census
cycle, will require local governments to remove prison
populations prior to issuing.
Mr. Clay. So is that how you envision a workable solution
to what we have now?
Mr. Wagner. For this cycle the next step of the solution
for the 2010 cycle is at the State and local level, the State
and local government to develop their own procedures.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much. Chairman Towns.
Mr. Towns. Let me just add, listening to some of this
really requires getting additional information out to people. I
mean, it sort of makes sense that they fully understand what's
going on.
I guess, Dr. Groves, is there any way at this stage of the
game that through the discretionary funds that you might be
able to put it into some of these areas and make certain that
people fully know and understand? Because when you look at--and
of course over the past 30-years we've gotten bad counts, for
30-years that I know and I'm sure it's probably even before
that.
And of course I see some of the things developing again
that maybe we still would be in a position to correct by
looking at ways and methods to get resources into these areas
in a different kind of way. In other words, local news, local
press, NYU newspaper, I mean things of this nature that we
might not have tried in the past.
I know it's late, I know the hour is late, but the point is
that there are things called discretionary funds. And let me
just say to you that we are not up here to beat up and blame,
no. We are up here to try to get an accurate count, and you
won't find anybody more cooperative than the Chair of this
committee and of course be the full committee, in terms of
working with you to make certain that we get the information
out to people, because we want to make certain that we get a
count.
In this instance, Mr. Wagner, that a whole prison
population was missed, I mean there's something wrong in this
day and age when we have these kind of problems. And when I
look at what's happening in our city--basically the prison
population comes from seven zip codes in our city. Which means
those are the areas which probably need the most help, and
those are the areas that may end up being undercounted.
Dr. Groves. Thank you for the question. I think there's a
lot for all of us to do. With regard to the group quarters, the
so called group quarters population, the challenge is multi-
full because each population presents its own issues, so it's
back to colleges and universities. I think the biggest
challenge is to make sure that the student population
understands that it is their job to enumerate themselves to be
part of that enumeration, not their parents' job. That's a big
barrier we have, especially a barrier for the students who live
off campus.
The situation with four roommates living in an apartment
near a college campus is one that's a real challenge for us
because no one really is used to taking responsibility as the
head of the household. We have census forms there where
everyone should, every member of that household should be
written down. So that's one set of problems.
There are colleges and universities around the country that
are doing wonderfully creative stuff on this, really
spectacular work, I think. My old institution has started a
contest where the pro-vos is giving a price for the best
YouTube commercial done by the college students about this
whole issue to get the word out, and there are great student
newspaper articles and so on, exactly what you said.
I think for non-institutionalized populations, as you
mentioned earlier, are strongest tool in reaching out to local
partners. And the New York city officials and the complete
health committee in this city are wonderfully organized. We're
trying to advertise in the local press. We're advertising in 15
different local newspapers for the African American and
Caribbean population. Getting the word out down to the grass
roots, I think, is the key thing.
We will also be publishing publicly, you and I, all of us
can look at participation rates daily by track, by census track
starting about the third week of March. We'll all be alerted to
this. And what we hope, with regard to your notion of
discretionary funds, is to target any advertising to the tracks
that aren't performing as well as we all hope them to perform
despite the good work of the partners and so on. So, there are
a lot of different tools we have. They depend on different
group quarters and different living situations, and we're
always open for good ideas.
Mr. Towns. We have situations that you have an area that
has housing shortage or the fact that the cost of living is so
high that people double up and triple up, you know, that kind
of thing. And of course we found some interesting things, and
even in our housing developments that wherein you have a
daughter who gets married and then it's her and her husband
still living in the apartment. And then you have a son that
gets married and also lives in the apartment. Now, when the
count comes they're not going to give us that information
because, let's face it, they feel that creates problems for
them in terms of continuing to live there, and where we would
like to have that information because it helps us to make the
point that additional housing is needed in order for them to be
able to have their own apartment.
So, I think that advertising and talking about the fact
that it's important that we get accurate information and at the
same time, you know, let them know that the information that
the Census Bureau is collecting is not used otherwise. I think
that, you know, if we can sort of get that across. And I don't
know in terms of what more we can do that we're not doing. But
the point is that I want you to see us, the lecturers, as a
partner with you to be able to address this issue.
Dr. Groves. Well, you and many of your colleagues have been
wonderful in putting out PSAs that are being broadcast locally.
On the issue of doubling up houses, this census is facing a
challenge that the last census didn't face on this nationwide
because of the foreclosures that have occurred and people
moving out of houses that they were buying and living with
relatives or friends. In areas where that is a big problem
we're trying to get the word out that those households need to
be counted fully. So if your brother-in-law is living with you
because they've lost their home, brother-in-law and sister-in-
law and their kids, because they cannot be counted in any other
place, they should be included on your census form. And that
message we're trying to hammer out, and when officials and
leaders of the community help us in that message it helps a
lots. There's a companion message that we need, I think, for
some of those households, especially rental units where that
doubling up may not be--or that doubling up might be frowned
upon by the owner of the property.
We need everyone to understand that the information that is
provided to the Census Bureau is never passed on to any
enforcement agency at the local, State or national level, it's
not passed on to landlords. We have the job of enumerating
everyone who lives in this country, and that information is
kept private under very, very strong confidentiality laws that
we could all be proud of, I think, to protect those data. That
message needs to be delivered over and over by a lot of trusted
voices in these communities.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much, Dr. Groves. You may want to
share the story that you shared with me about President Harry
Truman. You want to share that with the committee.
Dr. Groves. I'd be happy to. This is a story that's told at
the Census Bureau, I'm trying to get the hard data on this, but
here's the story. Part of it we know is true. When Harry Truman
was President they remodeled the White House, and during the
remodeling phase they had to move out the President's family.
They tried to find a house in Washington for the family to
live. They located a house. And at that point the concern of
the Secret Service was, well, is this a safe neighborhood for
the President. And the Secret Service approached the Census
Bureau and asked for the census forms of the neighbors for the
new President's residence. The Census Bureau Director said
``well, I can't do that. We have this law that protects that
information and I can't give it to you.'' And I want to remind
us of the story, this is the Secret Service coming to the
Census Bureau asking about the safety of the President. The
Census Bureau Director said no, that is a law that's been
upheld in the courts over and over again. It's a wonderful law
for all of us to know about because it means that when you say
something, when you give an answer to the Census Bureau, it
doesn't go anywhere in any way that can harm you or your
family.
Mr. Clay. And I guess Chairman Towns has a point about
stressing to our constituents that all information and data
collected by the Census Bureau will be confidential and it
cannot be shared with any other governmental institutions, and
that's the point. And that should be part of the communication,
part of the speech of enumerating that has to go around, that
should be part of their verbiage also.
Let me ask you, Dr. Groves, Mr. Ellett suggested that the
colleges have a data drop to give to the Bureau with the first
three questions on the form for each student in residence, does
the Bureau use this data to develop and is it helpful at all in
enumeration of coverage measures?
Dr. Groves. In many of the group quarters in 2000 the
majority of the prison records, the majority of the reports on
people in those facilities came from administrative records.
So, for example, in correctional institutions about 56 percent
of the people were enumerated through administrative records.
This happens in colleges as well. The findings of the quality
of those records is such that they're variable over
institutions. I don't want to comment on the university records
system at all, but I do know across prisons at a State level
the nature of the variables that are collected on records and
missing data rates are highly variable, so we have to do a lot
of what we call imputation. We have to estimate the answers
when the records are deficient.
As I testified before, looking forward record systems are
getting better and better of all sorts. Thinking ahead for
censuses in the future, I can't imagine effective cost
efficient censuses that are not exploiting the existing records
in new and useful ways. In looking forward in that way we have
to realize that record systems vary over institutions. We have
to be real worried about consistent information when we use
them, but we're using this when we can and we'll continue to
use it I'm sure.
Mr. Clay. Dr. Groves, out of curiosity, how are Mormon
students who are assigned to missions counted, are they counted
any differently than other students studying abroad.
Dr. Groves. You mean the Mormon students on missions?
Mr. Clay. Yes.
Dr. Groves. Or students or non-students. I assume the
Mormon missionaries in general, how are they counted.
Mr. Clay. Yes.
Dr. Groves. Those who are abroad during the time of the
census are not included in censuses, they haven't been. The
only exception for this are those who are serving in the
military and abroad because we obtain administrative records
from the Department of Defense for those, counts off of
personnel records and those who are working for other Federal
agencies formally stationed abroad. We do not attempt to count
American citizens living abroad in general.
Mr. Goldenkoff. That's correct. The reason for the
difference is that if you were a civilian or a non-Federal
employee on a military or civilian affiliated with the Federal
Government, the reason for that is because your mission is part
of your duty to the government to go overseas, and so those
folks are included in the State count but not for purposes of
the redistricting. For all other Americans overseas it's
considered that you're doing that out of your own volition, and
therefore you're not included in the census count.
Mr. Clay. Is that an area--I mean, would you suggest it be
an area that this subcommittee look at for future census.
Mr. Goldenkoff. I mean, GAO does not take the position on
who should be included, who shouldn't be included, that's a
congressional perogative. We have weighed in on the operational
aspect of it after the 2000 census was a big issue with the
State of Utah counting the 11,000 Mormon missionaries at that
time that were serving overseas. It's something that to the
extent this is a concern of different States, and there are
other States that also have a number of people living overseas
or in different countries, some of the border States, for
example. To the extent that it is an issue it could be
something that the Bureau examines for the future, but it's
something that should be done early in the decade because, I
mean GAO has looked into the operational aspect of counting
people overseas.
You may recall the Census Bureau did a test of counting
people overseas, they ran a test in Mexico, France and Kuwait
in the early--this was right after the 2000 census and whereas
we didn't take a position on who should be included in the
census, we said it would be very expensive and have other
operational issues. And so, it should be something--it's going
to take a long time how to figure that out, how to do it if
that's the way Congress and the Census Bureau want to go. It
needs to be done early in the decade.
Mr. Towns. Thank you very much. You know, Mr. Wagner
mentioned something that I think that--and I realize that the
Census Bureau is not concerned about redistricting, I
understand that, but I must admit, elected officials and these
individuals you talked about in terms of prison, in prisons,
the individuals in prisons they are counted in the facility
that they're located in. This practice, excuse me, the
redistricting process, I mean, it's a serious one. I mean, if
you think about an area where you have a prison and you have a
tremendous population there and they're counted there in that
particular facility, don't you feel that could, Mr. Wagner, I'd
like to hear your views on that, I think that is creating
problems because they're not there permanently.
Mr. Wagner. Actually, legally speaking prisoners have never
left their homes. In New York State and most States have
constitutional clauses or election law statutes they very
explicitly say that incarceration does not change their
residence, so legally speaking the people in prison are still
back at home. And then our system of representative democracy
requires that legislative districts each contain the same
number of people, so each person has the same access to
government regardless of where they live. That process breaks
down when this data that States rely on to draw the district or
the counties rely on does not reflect where the people are.
Mr. Towns. So you can have a prison with 50,000 people and
of course they can't even vote in that area, but it's part of
that industry.
Mr. Wagner. Correct. And in the two States where prisoners
can vote, they have to do so absentee back in their home
district.
Mr. Towns. I mean, that's something that you might have to
take a look at and see in terms of how we should address that
and come up with a system kind of operation, some States do it,
other States do not.
Mr. Wagner. Absolutely. I think that this is the only
opportunity for States in this cycle to do things at the State
level, but I think it would be ideal for Congress and the
Census Bureau to come up with a good system very early in this
decade for the 2020 and future censuses.
Mr. Towns. You know, when you have people living in these
large facilities, when this happens, are you sure that we're
really getting an accurate count, you know, in these
facilities, Mr. Ellett.
Mr. Ellett. I can speak for NYU and I will assure you that
we will get every person who lives there in our jurisdiction. I
can't say for all colleges and universities that's accurate,
because I am, you know, you're dependent on undergraduate
residents assistants to go to the floor and collect the forms,
and whether or not someone turns in their form or not, I would
say would probably not be a hundred percent accurate. And I
would be surprised if the numbers that you get back aren't
consistent with the university's number of how many paid
students are living in housing as of April 1, 2010. I think
there would be a large discrepancy between those two numbers,
because universities know how many people are in their
jurisdiction because they've paid to be there and are receiving
payment from those students. Will the census receive all of
those forms back from that institution, I would say it would be
a high unlikelihood that would happen.
Mr. Towns. I guess in terms of you, Dr. Groves, are you
satisfied and feeling comfortable now with the training that
people have had up to this point and that the--in terms of the
community, in terms of the services, in terms of the language
and culture and lifestyle, do you feel comfortable that we're
ahead of where we were the last census and the census before
that.
Dr. Groves. The question phrased that way, I am quite
comfortable. We are the unanticipated beneficiaries of this
horrible recession we're living through. The quality of the
staff that we're now recruiting and the quantity of people
applying are at unprecedented high. So, relative to the 2000
census the quality of the staff and the experience they bring
to the task is something that I think we could always be quite
comfortable with.
We are hiring, as you know, Congressman locally. That puts
a constraint on our recruitment, but there's a big payoff of
that constraint, and that is we have people who know the
neighborhoods that they're working for non-response followup
phases, they know the streets, they know the comings and goings
of people, and I think we've learned over the decade that is a
very important step. We're hiring people with language skills
that are needed in the neighborhoods. That too is a constraint
on our hiring, but is a huge payoff in terms of the quality of
the data we get.
Mr. Towns. You're not going to get this one from the
Members of Congress, but I want to put it this way. What can we
as Members of Congress do to help you, you're going to hear
that too many times.
Dr. Groves. I'll take advantage of it though. This is an
important few weeks we're all living through. We really need
you to speak out to say that the census is a deeply
constitutional thing that we've done, it's important, it's the
cornerstone of the democracy, that we have made it an easy
thing to do this decade by having just the short form that
should take you 10 minutes. And it's a very safe thing for all
of your--the people who live in your district to participate in
this census. You can assure them that they'll never be harmed
by doing this. They only get their fair share of the benefits
of congressional representation and the over $400 billion a
year of taxpayer money that is returned to local neighborhoods
and cities and States based on these data. That message we're
trying to get out in the advertising, we're trying to use
trusted voices in any way we can, and this is the moment we
need you to speak out as loudly and as widely as you possibly
can, and I know you've done that and I thank you for what
you've done.
Mr. Towns. Let me ask you, is there a pattern here that
seniors don't turn it in or young people don't turn it in, is
there a pattern? Is there anything that's been established that
can be worked on and talked about to try and make certain that
we really get this accurate count this time.
Dr. Groves. If there are there are influences on behaviors
that seem to be present over and over. Right now I'm terribly
worried about young people who are being asked to fill out the
census for the first time. Last census their parents filled it
out. If you look at--there was a recent PEW study that asked
people, ``have you heard about this thing called a census.''
Thirty-one percent of those 18 to 29 said ``no, I haven't heard
of a census.'' Then the interviewer said, ``well, let me tell
you what a census is. A census is a count of everyone who lives
in the country. Now that I've told you what it is, have you
heard of it?'' That 31 percent goes down to 17 percent, only to
17 percent. So, we have a massive challenge in front of us and
it happens every decade.
For someone who is newly establishing themselves as head of
the household, they're living independently, they have no
experience with the census, they don't know what it is. And so,
young people traditionally are tough groups to get
participation on and it's true this decade, we have the data to
show it. We're trying to use special outreach to those groups,
advertising in media that they watch and they care about, we're
using more digital media than we've used before. We need
everyone to target that group. And I can go on and on, but let
me stop. I just chose that one to start with.
Mr. Towns. Let me just say that I'm trying to look at ways
and methods that we can get to where we need to go. Now I know
that you have regions and all of that, I understand that. Have
you thought about just specializing in certain areas of
specialization, that you would have a person who only deals
with seniors and senior homes, senior housing, seniors in
nursing homes and just sort of specialize in these areas to be
able to sort of go in and sort of get these kind of counts as
an expertise in these areas where people are out there all the
time and be able to just sort of go and get this information in
a special kind of way. That would be his or her job, she is
director of all of these senior homes, senior housing, this
person is in charge of nursing homes, this person is in charge
of hospitals, whatever it is that you would have in terms of
specialization, residence and regional kind of things.
Dr. Groves. So an organization that's sort of functional
rather than geographical.
Mr. Towns. Right.
Dr. Groves. I think it's a good idea and one to talk about.
I think there are seeds of that kind of functional
specialization within the region, so. One of the wonderful
things that happened this decade, the stimulus money that the
Census Bureau received allowed us to hire specialists of that
sort. Some of them--so there's a partnership specialist in the
Boston Regional Census Center that's specializing in the
colleges of Boston, so there's going to be a competition among
the colleges in Boston because of this person for participation
rates, and they're trying to do that.
And we really tried to specialize on language and cultural
subgroups, so our partner specialists nationwide speak over 130
different languages, and every area of the country really has
different pockets of different language and new immigrant
groups. We're trying to exploit local ties and that way most of
these partnership specialists were hired out of those
communities. They have deep and rich ties inside the community
in order to get the word out through formal and informal
networks. We could always do more. I am impressed with how much
more we could be doing, but we're trying along those lines.
Mr. Towns. Let me just go down the line and just ask, what
more, what do you think that should be done that's not being
done at this particular time?
Mr. Goldenkoff. I don't know how much more we could do at
this point that the Census Bureau isn't already doing. I think
what we all need to remember--I agree with everything that Dr.
Groves has said, but let me put sort of a future look on this.
That what the Nation needs to do and Congress needs to do is
not lose sight of the census in those intercensul years. Where
are we going to be come April 1, 2011, we all disappear. You
know, after the 2000 census I think we gave our last hearing
sometime in 2000, the next hearing wasn't until 2006.
Mr. Towns. He wasn't the chairman.
Mr. Goldenkoff. I mean, the chairs came and went. And,
again, you know, we're not trying to point fingers at anybody
either. I mean, other priorities come up and there's a tendency
to think, ``hey, it's 10 years away, why are we looking at
something that's 10 years away because we have priorities here
and now.'' But the thing is, you can't do that because so many
things buildup.
Census after census we always seem to be starting from
square one, the advertising, the building of the access, that
has changed somewhat with ACS. This whole notion of building
census awareness, what we need to do is we need to put it in
people's consciousness early, build that into the curriculum in
school systems for example as part of civics classes. You know,
if they started learning it in first grade, you know, when
you're in first grade 2010, by 2020, well, that's 10 years
later, they've heard that same message for ten consecutive
years and so now it's part of their sense of consciousness and
so their parents are aware of it, you know. So, those are the
type of things that need to be done. We can't just disappear
come 2011. It just needs to be on our radar screen continually.
The same is true with the enumeration of prisoners. I mean,
this has been--you know, for those of us, you know, the census
stakeholders, the census geeks, we talk about this throughout
the decade, but nobody starts listening to us until, you know,
again, 2008, 2009 when it's too late to do anything about it.
So, you know, I'll just close here by saying we need to keep up
the momentum and sustain that momentum, keep holding hearings,
keep the focus on GAO, hold us accountable for providing new
information during the design phase of the census. Hold the
Census Bureau accountable.
We've already, you know, Dr. Groves and I we meet on a
regular basis and we're talking about not only current issues,
but we're talking about 2020 issues. So, I think we all need to
be doing that and we all need to get down to the States and the
school systems. Businesses need to get involved too because
they benefit from census data. But we just have to keep it on
our radar screen.
Mr. Towns. Mr. Wagner.
Mr. Wagner. The census needs in this decade and--but some
of the most important decisions and support needs to come in
2011, 2012.
Mr. Towns. What do you think of the specialization concept
to having a person deal with the prisons, having another person
deal with as previously described, what do you think of that,
I'm just curious.
Mr. Goldenkoff. I think in terms of actually collecting the
forms and working with institutions, I would imagine that
possibly should work very well in urban areas. I imagine it
would be a challenge in rural areas where there's small jails
and some small hospitals, I think that would be very
complicated in rural areas. But I do think in terms of
designing the group quarters count, that greater and greater
specialization and expertise I'm sure will be very helpful. And
I'm sure this is probably some of what the Bureau did when they
overhauled the group quarters count over the last decade with
bringing more of the subject matter experts, but I do I think
that the specialization would work, would have an easier time
in the urban areas.
Mr. Towns. Mr. Ellett.
Mr. Ellett. I would say your suggestion is brilliant and I
would say that the professional association could benefit from
that too. The professional associations which I participated in
would certainly have loved to have some outreach, that their
monthly newsletters and magazines certainly have some featured
article on the census upcoming for students living in residence
homes across the country. None were featured and I think
there's a potential opportunity there that you could use for
not only college and university housing professional
associations, but I'm sure that the prison system has a special
association and others that may be in other areas which we
could work with in the future.
Mr. Towns. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Mr. Clay. Mr. Goldenkoff, I've never heard the term census
geek.
Mr. Goldenkoff. You're looking at four of them.
Mr. Clay. Let me ask you seriously though, do you believe
the addition of group quarters from the--will reduce the
number?
Mr. Goldenkoff. Yes, mainly because there were two separate
lists in the past and this is what happened with some colleges,
for example, because of just the kind of the uniqueness of
dormitory addresses. If they had a street address, for example,
they would sometimes show up in the Census Bureau housing unit
data base, but they'd also show up in the group quarters data
base and they can get counted twice and raise the risk of
counting them then twice, so by combining them to a single data
base, it's either for the Census Bureau to clean up the record.
Mr. Clay. Mr. Ellett, many college students have mailboxes
that are separate from their dorm rooms, how can the Census
deal with this situation and are census forms mailed to the
mailboxes or delivered to their rooms, how does the process
work?
Mr. Ellett. I'm sure it varies from college to college. I
know in our conversation with Census we determined together
that it would be best if they were to label, we would give the
label to the Census Bureau. They would put the label on the
envelopes, deliver them to each individual residence hall to
our staff and our staff by floor would go knock on each of the
doors, collect them after they've been completed in their
folded envelopes and then we would return them, the Census
would come back and pick it up. That varies from institution to
institution. I talked to some colleagues who they were mailing
out, but the majority was that they were working in concert
with the Census to come on the campus and to do the same model
that we described at NYU.
Mr. Clay. Dr. Groves.
Dr. Groves. The NYU model is the ideal model from our
viewpoint because it engages local knowledge and then it
utilizes proper confidentiality controls, people who know the
population quite well to help us enumerate. It works quite
well.
Mr. Clay. Members of Congress usually reside in two places,
one in their home district and Washington.
Mr. Towns. Some of them in the office.
Mr. Clay. Well, they wouldn't get the questionnaire there.
Which one do you want us to answer for the primary residence?
Dr. Groves. You'll get a questionnaire--I don't know your
living situation, I'm guessing----
Mr. Clay. I'm sure I'll get one.
Dr. Groves. I certainly hope you'll get a questionnaire.
Let's say you get two questionnaires because you have a place
in St. Louis and you have a place in Washington, you are to
fill out the questionnaire as to the place where you usually
reside. You know that, I don't know what that is. And the other
residence, if you live by yourself in that other residence you
should put down zero people currently living there and the
person who filled it out has a usual household elsewhere,
that's the proper thing. And that's the same as would apply to
someone who spends their winters in Florida but their summers
in New York, they may get two forms, so you fill out the form
where you usually live.
Mr. Goldenkoff. What does that really mean? You know, if I
could just suggest, you know, if you look at the form there
is--you know, that could lead to a certain amount of confusion
because where you usually live--well, what does that really
mean, it's not tied to anything quantifiable? And, you know,
maybe a suggestion for the future is have the Bureau say
``well, where do you spend either most of the time,'' or, ``do
you spend more than 6 months of the time at this household.''
I think it could be--if you look at the form it could
confuse people, geeks and non-geeks alike. Because I have
looked at it and, you know, I don't know if I would be clear if
I had two residences and the time was more or less split so
that some people who work in one location, you have two
residence like Members of Congress, you know, Monday through
Friday in one location and then on weekends you spend it in
your other location. What you would consider your home because
that's where you have an emotional affinity to, but technically
you should be enumerated where you spend most of the time,
which would be your Monday through Friday address even though
that might be a small apartment somewhere.
Dr. Groves. It seems like you figured it out.
Mr. Goldenkoff. But the thing is remember I'm a geek. So,
anyway, I just wanted to point that out as something, that
maybe something that the Census Bureau can work and quantify it
in terms of a time period versus something a little bit more
subjective.
Mr. Towns. First of all, I want to thank you. That's why
the hearing is so important. Just having a chance to exchange
ideas, get information out, get input, you know, because
generally when you have a hearing like this I'll get a bunch of
notes from people in the audience later on, that will
indicate--which also is very helpful. And you have some active
leadership here on the census and of course we want to work
with you, we want to make certain you get a good count. We
recognize how important it is. I mean, no doubt about it. And
that we lose resources when we don't get it on the count. And
we've had experience here, you know, with of course in this
borough of not getting a strong count.
We had some very serious problems over the years, that's
the reason why I'm happy to be able to have a hearing here, so
we're able to get the executives in the room and everybody gets
a chance to introduce city council members that were here and,
you know, because they're also concerned about the census and
they're working hard to make certain that people in the
communities are aware of the fact that the count is now getting
ready to start. Of course we're hoping that this time around
we'll be able to get a good count.
I want to thank you, Chairman Clay, for coming to Brooklyn
with the hearing because we feel that it's important to have
this dialog, so thank you very, very much. I look forward to
working with you, I look forward to working with you, Dr.
Groves, to be able to strengthen it as we move forward.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much, Chairman Towns. Let me also
thank the people in the borough of Brooklyn and particularly
Chairman Towns for your hospitality and to the subcommittee's
hand to help us raise awareness of the importance of the census
of counting everyone in order to get an accurate snapshot of
what America looks like and who resides where on that
particular day April 1, 2010. We thank the entire staff for
your hospitality, and thank you to the witnesses also for
making this hearing possible.
Without objection the committee stands adjourned. Thank
you.
[Whereupon, at 11:30 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
[Additional information submitted for the hearing record
follows:]
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